tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22656596684114438932024-02-06T18:35:08.625-08:00The Ephemeral FrontierRuminations and stories generated in the continually evolving historically-themed immersion environments of Second Life.Diohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14266713613721430111noreply@blogger.comBlogger161125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2265659668411443893.post-49856714486679014412012-02-13T15:05:00.001-08:002012-02-13T15:29:02.169-08:00Coffee house salon transcript -- Architecture<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjl_uXYhBjDs97ewC8CZnBsMEQy9sUy1_3x9kPWMIcI2MObaH_bUHhn3TKx6Dx8QQwgyIW_4uguPTKXSAaOesTER6xk7O5j5x4RliccnGjPmfPzRXPHJMLQ-koOEQ4uIImsrR9xbfQpfcdH/s1600/Melioria++current+Snapshot_001.png" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 400px; height: 218px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjl_uXYhBjDs97ewC8CZnBsMEQy9sUy1_3x9kPWMIcI2MObaH_bUHhn3TKx6Dx8QQwgyIW_4uguPTKXSAaOesTER6xk7O5j5x4RliccnGjPmfPzRXPHJMLQ-koOEQ4uIImsrR9xbfQpfcdH/s400/Melioria++current+Snapshot_001.png" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5708760581031549426" /></a><br /><p style="text-align: center;margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; "><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">~~~</span></p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:04] Aldo Stern: Herr Gandt, please have a seat, my friend</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:04] Aphrodite Macbain: Yes, let's begin. What is the format of these discussions?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:04] Aldo Stern: our discussion is to be upon architecture</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:05] Mercury Gandt: Another topic I'm shamefully uninformed in</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:05] Aldo Stern: I shall assist the discussion in moving along, and begin with a few questions to stir the thought processes</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:05] Aphrodite Macbain: Thank you</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:05] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta) nods</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:06] Aldo Stern: first of all...I suspect we may agree that there are many purposes to which architecture may be put...</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:06] Aphrodite Macbain: nods</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:06] Mercury Gandt: Buon giorni, Signorina</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:06] Aldo Stern: the creation of structures is one of our oldest human activities</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:06] Aldo Stern: and essential..at the heart of urban civilization</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:07] Candace Ducatillon: Oui, buon giorni to everyone :-)</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:07] Aphrodite Macbain: smiles</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:07] Aldo Stern: but there are purposes to which architecture may be applied that are more than merely covering the people and livestock, or of defense, or commerce...</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:08] Hyacinthe de Rigaud (defiennes): bonsoir a tous</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:08] Aphrodite Macbain: nods</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:08] Mercury Gandt: Bonsoir, Comte</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:08] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta) agrees</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:08] Hyacinthe de Rigaud (defiennes): good to see you all</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:08] Aldo Stern: ah greetings, Signore</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:08] Hyacinthe de Rigaud (defiennes): sorry I'm late</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:08] Aldo Stern: what other functions could, or should architecture fulfill?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:09] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): in this age, a means to show the arts</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:09] Aphrodite Macbain: Well certainly it could be a place of worship or a place to meet and shop</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:09] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): ach well...architecture , in the public buildings...it can inspire...</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:10] Leary Macpherson: shows the soul</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:10] Aphrodite Macbain: nods, and the most relevant architecture of the day reflects the spirit of its time</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:10] Aldo Stern: Signorina Wulfride, do you mean they can show the arts inside..or that the structure itself can be a display of the arts?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:10] Mercury Gandt: And pleasing the eye, either private or public</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:10] Aphrodite Macbain: for instance , today we value rationalism and reason</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:11] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): To me, both.</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:11] Aldo Stern: ah, all very good purposes</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:11] Aphrodite Macbain: and so the architecture reflects this interest in rationalism</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:11] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): Some buildings use facades created by the best craftsmen in their fields</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:11] Aldo Stern: I think we shall return to Signor Mercury's point about pleasing the eye in a moment...</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:11] Aldo Stern: but to the baronessa's point</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:12] Aldo Stern: to inspire...</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:12] Aldo Stern: to inspire what?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:12] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): it can be many things, nein?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica">[11:12] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): to inspire pride in one's nation and people</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:12] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): or it can be fear</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:12] Aphrodite Macbain: well, in the basilicas and churches, to inspire love of god</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:13] Aphrodite Macbain: of a place beyond the everyday</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:13] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): an imposing government building can let the people remember that they...um...need to behave</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:13] Aphrodite Macbain: nods. they show power</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:13] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): a bit like the Bastille?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:14] Aldo Stern: yes! precisely</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:14] Aphrodite Macbain: Many churches look like fortresses</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:14] Aldo Stern: ah a very good point Donna Aphrodite...</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:14] Leary Macpherson: especially with gargoyles looking down</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:14] Aphrodite Macbain: though I'm not sure whom they are keeping out.</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:14] Aphrodite Macbain: Barbarians I suppose</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:15] Aldo Stern: the architecture of a house of worship may inspire us to look to heaven, to rejoice in the beauty of creation and God's works</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:15] Aldo Stern: or to fear God</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:15] Aphrodite Macbain: or contemplation</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:15] Leary Macpherson: fear the power of the church -</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:15] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): I am thinking the gargoyles are supposed to keep out the bad spirits..frighten them off, ja?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:15] Mercury Gandt: Ah - Signore, welcome to Melioria</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:16] Aphrodite Macbain: But today, in this age of secularism and rationalism, we are less concerned about god than about man</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:16] Leary Macpherson: nods. you are right</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:16] Aphrodite Macbain: To be enlightened is to use our brains</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:16] Aphrodite Macbain: to find order</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:16] Aldo Stern: hmm, yes, are not some of the greatest works of architecture these days..the palaces of great men...</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:17] Aphrodite Macbain: yes indeed</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:17] Hyacinthe de Rigaud (defiennes): I think the Salt Works are quite remarkable</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:17] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): or fortifications..which are practical in the world of today..as well as representing the power of a state..or a monarch</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:17] Aldo Stern: the salt works, Signore?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:17] Hyacinthe de Rigaud (defiennes): industrial and visionary</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:18] Hyacinthe de Rigaud (defiennes): yes, by Ledoux</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:18] Aphrodite Macbain: The writings of her Winkelmann talk about the ideals of noble simplicity and quiet grandeur"</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica">[11:18] Aldo Stern: ah they are a royal facility?</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:18] Hyacinthe de Rigaud (defiennes): as opposed to Palaces, I mean</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:18] Hyacinthe de Rigaud (defiennes): yes, they are</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:19] Aldo Stern: but they can still , though industrial, in their style and decoration say something about the monarch who commissioned them, no?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:19] El Eiren: I have never seen them, but they have attracted many artists and have been painted again and again</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:19] Aldo Stern: then they must be of great interest and visual appeal</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:19] Aldo Stern: let me ask this then...</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:20] Hyacinthe de Rigaud (defiennes): they are a pre-cursor, in a way to his Ideal City, there is a connection, I thought</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:20] Aldo Stern: we have all these different purposes to which architecture may be put</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:20] Aldo Stern: when you have something that can be both a work of art, and express ideas or inspire...as well as a practical purpose</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:20] Aldo Stern: as a salt works, say</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:20] Aldo Stern: or a fortrezza</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:20] Aldo Stern: or a home</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:20] Aphrodite Macbain: or a church</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:21] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): buildings can convey meaning in their style - we know at a glance what its intended role is</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:21] Aldo Stern: which comes first? the philosophical purpose or the practical?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:21] Hyacinthe de Rigaud (defiennes): but they all convey views on society as a whole</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica">[11:21] Aphrodite Macbain: I would presume the philosophical and practical purpose</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:21] Aldo Stern: yes, but sometimes can't the spiritual or moral purpose interfere with the practical</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:22] Aphrodite Macbain: for example?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:22] Aphrodite Macbain: I feel you have something in mind</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:22] Aldo Stern: for example, I have read a good bit about Blenheim palace in England</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:22] Aldo Stern: it is a monument to a great man</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:22] Aldo Stern: but I understand it functions poorly as a residence</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:22] El Eiren: I think that depends on the individual. I would imagine that concurrently the cave painters of the Caves in france where accompanied by those building simple huts.</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:23] Aldo Stern: it is actually apparently an unpleasant place to live</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:23] Aphrodite Macbain: why, because it is an uncomfortable space?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:23] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): it is rather large yes, having been there</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:23] Aphrodite Macbain: probably hard to heat</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:24] Aldo Stern: the rooms are built to serve purposes of state</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:24] Aphrodite Macbain: Personally, I feel that for a work of architecture to be successful, it must fulfill its purpose</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:24] Aldo Stern: not to live comfortably</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:24] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): the house reflects two things</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:24] Aphrodite Macbain: Then it has conflicting purposes</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:24] Aldo Stern: and should not perhaps, that purpose...the function shape it's form?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:25] Candace Ducatillon: Hmmm</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:25] Aphrodite Macbain: you mean something like, um, form following function?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:25] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): form cannot always be a slave to function</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:25] Hyacinthe de Rigaud (defiennes): naturally functionality is of most importance</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:25] Aphrodite Macbain: It can be exquisite and daring and still support the function of the building</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:25] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): sometimes a building has to be an expression of an idea</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:26] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): It is a rather rambling building showing off wealth, war trophies and the like</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:26] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): and if you have to live there, then you do what you have to do and don't whine about it</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:26] Aphrodite Macbain: then that idea is power</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:26] Aphrodite Macbain: Then the inhabitants are subservient to the building</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:26] Hyacinthe de Rigaud (defiennes): I believe any building, is an expression of social ideas, intended or not</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:26] Candace Ducatillon: Of late, when I come across architecture that "speaks" to me, I wish to capture it in a painting</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:27] Aphrodite Macbain: rather than the other way around</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:27] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): *shrugs* we all have our roles to play</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:27] Aldo Stern: well Signorina Candace</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:27] Candace Ducatillon: (gulps)</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:27] Aldo Stern: that brings us back to Signor Gandt's point about architecture that pleases the eye...</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:28] Candace Ducatillon: :-)</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:28] Aphrodite Macbain: Then does it become "picturesque?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:28] Aldo Stern: the "preferences" aspect of this discussion</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:28] Aldo Stern: what do you find appealing that would make you wish to capture a building in your art?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:28] Candace Ducatillon: There is an angle or a texture that calls out to me.</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:28] Candace Ducatillon: A curiosity</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:29] Hyacinthe de Rigaud (defiennes): for me, it would be perfect proportions</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:29] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): ah, ruins. A building thats fallen out of use but yet still forms a function to artists *smiles*</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:29] Candace Ducatillon: yes, that can be most appealing.</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:29] Hyacinthe de Rigaud (defiennes): proportions that compel and impose</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:29] Aphrodite Macbain: I would be concerned that the materials are extremely important as a means of expression; sometimes a building cannot be expressed as a 2 dimensional painting</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:29] Candace Ducatillon: Ruins are indeed fascinating.</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:29] Candace Ducatillon: they speak to a very deep soul, another time</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:29] Candace Ducatillon: still present, yet gone</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:30] Aphrodite Macbain: Very romantic concept Madame Candace!</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:30] Aphrodite Macbain: :-)</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:30] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta) smiles</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:30] Candace Ducatillon: I will say thank you.</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:30] Aphrodite Macbain: Not functional but decorative, charming</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:30] Aldo Stern: well certainly our architects in this modern day of 1780</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:30] Aphrodite Macbain: Marie Antoinette felt something similar</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:30] Aldo Stern: they look back to the ancients for their inspiration</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:30] Aldo Stern: and their vocabulary</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:30] Aphrodite Macbain: nods</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:31] Aldo Stern: and principles...</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:31] Aldo Stern: they read Vitruvius</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:31] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta) agrees</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:31] Aphrodite Macbain: Those ruins at Pompeii, Pastum and Herculaneum are very inspiring</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:31] Aphrodite Macbain: Pestum</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:31] Aldo Stern: sometimes they even are inspired by some more recent predecessor who was in his turn inspired by the ancients</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:31] Aldo Stern: like Palladio or Jones</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:31] Aphrodite Macbain: You mean like Palladio?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:32] Hyacinthe de Rigaud (defiennes): and Palladio and Scamozzi</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:32] Aphrodite Macbain: yes</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:32] Aldo Stern: yes exactly Donna Aphrodite</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:32] Aldo Stern: he preceded us...but his work would fit very nicely with the work that many architects these days are doing</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:32] Aphrodite Macbain: It has been very popular in England and berlin as well as in the New World</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:33] Hyacinthe de Rigaud (defiennes): indeed</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:33] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta) nods</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:33] Aldo Stern: so what is it that we find appealing in buildings like our beloved Villa Vesuviana here?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:33] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): It has a pleasing prospect</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:33] Aldo Stern: The Conte mentioned proportions</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:33] Aphrodite Macbain: Frederick the great has been so taken with the style that he built the Knobelsdorff's opera house on the Unter den Linden</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:34] Aphrodite Macbain: I believe its noble simplicity and quiet grandeur</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:34] Aldo Stern: ah simplicity</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:35] Aphrodite Macbain: calm, open, balanced</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:35] Aldo Stern: may I ask the gentleman back at the last table, Signor Eiren, I discern from your comments so far that you are an artist, yes?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:36] El Eiren: To some degree, yes</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:36] Mercury Gandt: :)</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:36] El Eiren: I am primarily a curator </span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:37] Aldo Stern: ah you mentioned cave painters..the idea that we embellish our spaces..even in our most primitive state...</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:37] El Eiren: I was just about to say that what appeals the most to me about this structure is its sense of durability</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:37] Aldo Stern: ah!</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:37] Aldo Stern: would you care to elaborate on that?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:37] El Eiren: that I might count on to be here in 1000 years</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:37] Aphrodite Macbain: endurability!</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:38] Aldo Stern: not unlike the other earlier structures we have scattered around the island which have already been here a thousand years,</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:38] Aphrodite Macbain: an art in itself!</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:38] El Eiren: I am not very familuar with all that is here.</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:38] Candace Ducatillon: there are "caves" in Melioria, within the structure of the Villa I believe.</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:39] Aphrodite Macbain: Yes, they are very beautiful and mysterious- and filled with ruins themselves</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:39] Aldo Stern: but durability...that is an appealing thought</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:39] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): you know what I like about the Villa?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:40] Aphrodite Macbain: listens</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:40] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): that it is beautiful yes</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:40] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): but also that it is, I am finding, a pretty nice place to live</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:40] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): yes, it works as our public building</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:40] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): for meetings and greeting visitors and such</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:40] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): but the rooms upstairs are very comfortable</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:41] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): it is both a good place to live</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:41] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): and stands for who we as residents of Melioria are, I think</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:41] Aldo Stern: an interesting point</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:41] Aphrodite Macbain: It must be wonderful to live and work in this community</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:42] Aldo Stern: the Conte mentioned earlier about our buildings saying something about us, whether we intend them to or not</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica">[11:43] Aldo Stern: you look at a building like Versailles...what do you think it says about the people who occupy and the nation they are a part of?</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:43] Aphrodite Macbain: There are a variety of styles of buildings here, are there not?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:43] El Eiren: well trained in refined detail</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:43] Aphrodite Macbain: Versailles says power, order,</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica">[11:44] Aphrodite Macbain: love of the arts</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica">[11:44] Hyacinthe de Rigaud (defiennes): absolute monarchy is written all over that building ;-)</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:44] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): ach yes</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica">[11:44] Aphrodite Macbain: how ?</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:44] Aphrodite Macbain: what does absolute monarchy stand for?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:44] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta) nods</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:45] Hyacinthe de Rigaud (defiennes): basically, Ancien Regime</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:45] Aphrodite Macbain: nods</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:45] Hyacinthe de Rigaud (defiennes): and in particular Louis XIV</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:45] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): I think it squats upon the landscape, an ostentatious display of huge pots of money having been spent</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:45] Aphrodite Macbain: no power to the common man</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:45] Aphrodite Macbain: It is designed to impress other monarchs like Frederick the Great</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:46] El Eiren: It is amusing in its grandure, or is it grandiosity.</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:46] Hyacinthe de Rigaud (defiennes): but what intrigues me is the formal approach of gardening, Man over Matter</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica">[11:46] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): hmmm yet what he builds is the San Souci...a little house for himself and his dogs</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:46] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): but then it was built as an escape, not as the symbol of who he is</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:46] Aphrodite Macbain: Le Notre's gardens- a masterpiece of order and geometry</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:46] El Eiren: But it was a culmination of artistic energies and freedoms only seen in a few epoches.</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:47] Aphrodite Macbain: Nods</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:47] Aldo Stern: how do you mean Signor Eiren?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:47] Aldo Stern: please elaborate</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:48] El Eiren: The energies of the Renaissance were waning. Louis the XIV spent huge sums to redevelop the arts</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:49] El Eiren: Through the genius and energies of Le Brun huge monuments were created</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:49] El Eiren: These supported many thousands of craftsmen</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:50] Aphrodite Macbain wonders whether they were paid well</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:50] El Eiren: It came to an end with the revolution, but for 100 or so years there was a fervor of creativity</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:50] Summer Serendipity: Please excuse my early departure but I have a meeting at noon I must prepare for .. this has been a most interesting discussion ... thank you all</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:51] Summer Serendipity: take care and goodbye</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:51] Aphrodite Macbain: waves goodbye</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:51] Hyacinthe de Rigaud (defiennes): au revoir</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:51] Mercury Gandt: Au revoir, Signorina</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:51] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): *nods* creativity for the glorification of the monarch who says, l'etat, cest moi"</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:51] Aphrodite Macbain: Arrivaderci</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:51] Aldo Stern: thank you for coming</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:51] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): all the best for your meeting</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:53] Aphrodite Macbain: Yes, the baroque really ended about 30 years ago followed by the Roccoc I am relieved that buildings are becoming more classical and calm</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:53] Mercury Gandt: And smaller, Signora - I like the new fashion to build things more intimate</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:54] Mercury Gandt: Sans Souci was a good example for this</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:54] Aphrodite Macbain: yes indeed, less grandiose</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:54] Hyacinthe de Rigaud (defiennes): What I like about Neo Classical is the the austerity, making proportions all the more important, so a modest cornice takes the place of ornament, though it needs to be positioned in a perfect fashion</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:54] El Eiren: What exactly are you trying to replicate here?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:54] Aldo Stern: but I think Signor Eiren makes a good point about the craftsmen and artisans employed by great projects...</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:54] Aphrodite Macbain: well said Signore</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:54] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta) nods</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:55] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): but when the great project is done, what is left for them</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:55] Aphrodite Macbain: I would like to learn more about these craftsmen - I guess they were guilds</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:55] Aphrodite Macbain: guilds. who worked on many projects</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:55] Aphrodite Macbain: masons for example</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:55] El Eiren: Those techniques developed at Goeblins and other foundries, were revolutionary and still live today</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:55] Hyacinthe de Rigaud (defiennes): lush ornaments can also obscure a structure</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:56] Candace Ducatillon: how true</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:56] Aldo Stern: it is of interest that when Blenheim was being built. a great example of the baroque in england...</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:56] El Eiren: The techniques used have provided much beyond grandiosity.</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:56] Aphrodite Macbain: yes, weavers served a functional as well as a decorative purpose in those drafty buildings!</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:56] Aldo Stern: the Duchess of Marlborough was always complaining that the craftsmen were overcharging her...she argued with the architect and would up getting rid of the first rate artisans and replacing them with less skilled fellows who were cheaper</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:57] Aphrodite Macbain: sounds very familiar. I would imagine this attitude will persist</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:58] Aldo Stern: very well then obviously we have some differences of option about perferences and styles...</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica">[11:58] Aphrodite Macbain: Nods</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica">[11:58] Oona Riaxik: Greetings</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:58] Aldo Stern: but let us conclude by going around the room--I would ask each of you to tell me what is your favorite building (pre-1780 of course) and why it is so?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:58] Hyacinthe de Rigaud (defiennes): bonsoir madame</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:58] Aphrodite Macbain: Boungiorno Mlle Oona</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:58] Aldo Stern: hello Oona</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:58] Mercury Gandt: Buon giorno, Signora</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:59] Oona Riaxik: Hello Aldo, Dio Candace, Mercury</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:59] Oona Riaxik: Hello new friends</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:59] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): Greetings</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:59] Aldo Stern: let us start with Signorina Wulfride</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:59] Aphrodite Macbain: Sounds like a fine idea</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:59] Aldo Stern: what is your favorite building?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:59] Oona Riaxik: *curtsies*</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:59] Oona Riaxik: Hello Comte</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:59] Leary Macpherson: I must be going. ty for a lovely time</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:59] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): This is a tough question for me, as I like many</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:59] Aldo Stern: grazie Donna Leary</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[11:59] Aldo Stern: thank you for coming</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:00] Aphrodite Macbain: waves</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:00] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): Take care</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:00] Candace Ducatillon: Those lovely bells ... that is my favorite building at the </span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:00] Aphrodite Macbain: Bells?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:00] El Eiren: What a question: Favorite pre 1780 building. I guess I land at the entry to the Oracle Chamber at Delphi.</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:00] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): If I choose, the Royal Navy academy at Greenwich</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:01] Oona Riaxik: oh that is a lovely one!</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:01] Candace Ducatillon: Yes, perhaps the audio has not allowed you to hear them in the background.</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:01] Aldo Stern: ah two very different examples</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:01] Oona Riaxik: *thinks hard</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:01] El Eiren: Be well all.</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:02] Aphrodite Macbain: I would choose the Pantheon in Rome; it speaks to me of calm and endurance.</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:02] Hyacinthe de Rigaud (defiennes): wow, the Pantheon,</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:03] Aphrodite Macbain: I love the Pantheon- that amazing dome</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:03] Aldo Stern: very well, yes, the Pantheon, a good answer</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:03] Hyacinthe de Rigaud (defiennes): I'm sorry I have to leave, merci beaucoup for this interesting salon!</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:03] Oona Riaxik: I second the Pantheon</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:03] Aldo Stern: and what about Wulfride's Royal navy building? why do you like it?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:03] Hyacinthe de Rigaud (defiennes): au revoir a tous</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:03] Candace Ducatillon: And I, regrettably, need to leave to prepare for another function. I thank you for this Salon.</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:03] Oona Riaxik: Au revoir, M le COmte</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:03] Mercury Gandt: Au revoir, my friend</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:03] Aphrodite Macbain: It doesn't have to win. It is just my favorite!</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:03] Oona Riaxik: *curtsies*</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:04] Aldo Stern: thank you for joiing us Signor Conte</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:04] Hyacinthe de Rigaud (defiennes): my pleasure</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:04] Candace Ducatillon: Farewell all.</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:04] Aphrodite Macbain: Bye</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:04] Aphrodite Macbain: Bye! bye</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:04] Oona Riaxik: Bye Candace</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:04] Mercury Gandt: Bye Candace</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:04] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): It presents us with a display of power, but at the same time a common man does not feel excluded there</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:04] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): bye :)</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:04] Aldo Stern: ah interesting</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:04] Aphrodite Macbain: Yes, what a wonderful observation</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:05] Aldo Stern: arriverderci Signorina Candace</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:05] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): It has both form and function</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:05] Aphrodite Macbain: It is like many of the classical Greek and Roman buildings, serene and reliable!</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:05] Aldo Stern: and Herr Gandt?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:06] Mercury Gandt: I'm really confused what to answer - I like all the contemporary that is cosy - casual - and small and private</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:06] Mercury Gandt: A bourgeois taste, I know</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:07] Aphrodite Macbain: but a human one</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:07] Oona Riaxik: oui</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:07] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): yes indeed</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:07] Mercury Gandt: Do you have an example for a building like this?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:08] Aphrodite Macbain: Domestic architecture...</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:08] Oona Riaxik: hmmm interesting question</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:08] Aphrodite Macbain: unfortunately not often addressed in the history books but I believe there are a number</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:09] Mercury Gandt: Maybe the smaller country villas for the gentry, that follows the palladian tradition</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:09] Aphrodite Macbain: yes- the palazzi in Venice?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:10] Aphrodite Macbain: as well</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:10] Aldo Stern: something like perhaps the one called Chiswick?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:10] Aldo Stern: small, palladian style</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:10] Aphrodite Macbain: yes</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:10] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): I think an English vicarage would be close</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:10] Oona Riaxik: good example</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:10] Mercury Gandt: :) An English vicarage... charming</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:10] Aphrodite Macbain: Campbell's Wanstead House</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:10] Oona Riaxik: kisses!</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:11] Oona Riaxik: Must run!</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:11] Oona Riaxik: my apologies for such a short visit</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:11] Mercury Gandt: Goodbye, Donna Oona</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:11] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): Good day to you Oona</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:11] Aphrodite Macbain: It was nice to meet you</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:11] Aldo Stern: good to see you Donna Oona</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:11] Oona Riaxik: very rude of me but I really wanted to be here</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:11] Oona Riaxik: Does anyone have the log?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:12] Aldo Stern: it is quite allright</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:12] Oona Riaxik: TY</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:12] Aldo Stern: we understand</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:12] Oona Riaxik: Arrivederla!</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:12] Aldo Stern: we will keep it and post it somewhere</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:12] Aphrodite Macbain: I must go too. I have very much enjoyed this discussion!!</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica">[12:12] Oona Riaxik: Grazie Mille Herr Stern</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:12] Aphrodite Macbain: Thank you so much Professore for facilitating the discussion</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:12] Oona Riaxik: Hope to see you ladies again</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:12] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): Auf wiedersehen</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:12] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): :)</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:13] Aphrodite Macbain: Bye</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:13] Aphrodite Macbain: Bye! bye</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:13] Mercury Gandt: Bye :)</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:13] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): take care</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:13] Aldo Stern: well then, our last arrivederci</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:13] Aldo Stern: well then our last person to offer your favorite</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:14] Aldo Stern: Barnessa</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:14] Aldo Stern: ?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:14] Mercury Gandt: :)</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:14] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): hmm</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:14] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): I like San Souci, but it is a bit overdone and feels out of balance a bit</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:15] Mercury Gandt: So the proportions are attractive, but the decoration is too much, right?</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:15] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): yes exactly</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:15] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): all those damn sculptures</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:15] Mercury Gandt: I agree</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica">[12:16] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta) nods</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:16] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): I have only seen pictures of it, but I do very like Salisbury cathedral</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:16] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): I shall have to go to England someday to see it</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:16] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): ah yes, a beautiful place</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica">[12:17] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): May I recommend looking at Chesterfield's cathedral</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:17] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): Chesterfield? I shall look into it, Fraulein Wulfride</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:17] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): famous for its unusual spire</span></p><p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; "><span style="letter-spacing: 0px; ">[12:17] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): but as for my favorite structure, I think I shall have to say Neuf Brisach</span></p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica">[12:17] Aldo Stern: the fortress town?</p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica">[12:18] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): ja, the last great work of Marechal Vauban</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:18] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): utterly practical</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:18] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): yet the gates are elegant and tasteful</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:18] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): the angles are all perfect</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:18] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): there is not a single bad point in the fortress from a standpint of defense</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:19] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): there is no weak point</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:19] Mercury Gandt: Sounds interesting</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:19] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): *smiles*</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:20] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): and on that note, I am afraid I must excuse myself</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:20] Mercury Gandt: Me too, I'm afraid</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:21] Aldo Stern: this has been very interesting</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:21] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): All the best, Bis Spater!</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:21] Mercury Gandt: It was nice to see you all again</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:21] Aldo Stern: I hope you all enjoyed it</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px">[12:21] Mercury Gandt: Thank you for the event, professore</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica; min-height: 14.0px"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"></span><br /></p>Diohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14266713613721430111noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2265659668411443893.post-44525294750601391542012-01-09T12:21:00.000-08:002012-01-09T13:23:46.496-08:00The joys of participatory entertainment: Coffee House salons resume<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-style: italic; text-align: center;"><b><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">~<br /></span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-style: italic;"><b><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">After a busy holiday season, activity has resumed in Melioria. A recent open house was well attended, and this last Saturday, the coffee house salons started once more.<br /></span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-style: italic;"><b><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">You may find them a bit dry, or perhaps historically implausible. That's ok, if you do--I tend to loathe things that other people enjoy, like shopping or watching sports. But I do love these discussions.<br /></span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-style: italic;"><b><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">Aldo usually provides us with intriguing period readings to look at beforehand, and we all seem to do some preparation in advance. We assemble at the coffee house at a given time and then we engage in the amusing mental exercise of having a discussion while taking on the perspectives of relatively informed and enlightened people of the 1780s. Are we discussing things from the perspective of a typical 18th century person? No, not really. But it's fun, and we keep learning things. For example, most of my adult life I knew who Rousseau and Diderot were, but I never actually read any of their stuff. Now I have, and it's pretty cool.<br /></span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-style: italic;"><b><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">I look on this is as an excellent example of what I think is the most common and dynamic form of educational process that takes place in virtual worlds: "cooperative self-directed learning." A group of interested, interesting people develops a collective reason (or excuse, if you will) for doing individual reading and study, then they get together to share what they have learned. They encourage each other, and they motivate each other, but ultimately, what they get out of is pretty much equivalent to what they put into it.<br /></span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-style: italic;"><b><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">In the end it is about amusing ourselves and being entertained. But it is entertainment in which we actively participate.</span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-style: italic;"><b><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">The following is a Melioria Salon partial Transcript:</span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><b><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">“In Sickness and In Health”</span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><b><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">January 7, 2012</span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">Attending:<span> </span>Aldo Stern, Diogeneia Kuhr, Joseph-Hyacinthe de Rigaud, Oona Riaxik, JJ Drinkwater, Serenek Timeless</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">Pictures: <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/109722012977197738104/MelioriaSalons" target="_blank">https://picasaweb.google.com/<wbr>109722012977197738104/<wbr>MelioriaSalons#</a></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:13]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: The subject matter is, of course a question of science, but one that affects us all... </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:14]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: matters of disease, theories of how it spreads...modern treatments for it...and if we have time...the responsibilities of us all to foster good health among the public</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:15]<span> </span>Diogeneia: if I may begin with a comment...</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:15]<span> </span>Diogeneia: you know I mentioned my brother...</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:15]<span> </span>Diogeneia: and being wounded...</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:16]<span> </span>Diogeneia: you know what the doctors wished to do for him, once thy bandaged his leg...was of course to bleed him</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:16]<span> </span>Diogeneia: it is for many still the standard, to try to adjust the humors within the body...</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:16]<span> </span>Diogeneia: but he said it made him feel weaker...</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:17]<span> </span>Diogeneia: and so he subsequently avoided the surgeon whene'er he saw the poor man coming...</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:17]<span> </span>Diogeneia: and he healed quite nicely without the benefit of bleeding...</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:17]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: To my mind, he had already been bled by the wound. Perhaps leeches should be reserved to internal maladies</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:17]<span> </span>Diogeneia: better perhaps, he thinks</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:17]<span> </span>Diogeneia: what may I ask do you my friends think of the practice?</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:18]<span> </span>JJ Drinkwater: Of bleeding?</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:18]<span> </span>Diogeneia: ja,Fraulein Oona, she has a good point, he already did the bleeding with the wounding</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:19]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: yet the surgeon wished to take more, no?</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:19]<span> </span>Joseph-Hyacinthe de Rigaud: I've always been skeptical about this practice</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:19]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: indeed Signor Conte?</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:19]<span> </span>Sere Timeless: It is my understanding that the medicine of Galen, the balance of the humors, and the value of bleeding is much out of favor with those who do the most healing ...the battlefield surgeons.</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:19]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: was this a local physician or one acquainted with war hospitals?</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:20]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: Precisely, this is what I hear of war surgeons as well. Which makes me wonder if they brought in a local doctor to care for your brother</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:20]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: or news reaches the colonies too slowly</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:20]<span> </span>Diogeneia: the surgeon of the regiment died of a fever some time ago</span></p><span style="font-family:Helvetica;"></span><p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:21]<span> </span>Diogeneia: so the doctor my brother was seeing was a civilian ... an American</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:21]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: well then he simply wanted to effect your brothers end!</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:21]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: by bleeding him to death</span><br /><span style="font-family:Helvetica;"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:21]<span> </span>Diogeneia: Ach, no, it was a loyalist ...</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:21]<span> </span>Sere Timeless: I wonder where this American doctor was trained. Or if he was trained.</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:22]<span> </span>JJ Drinkwater: Surely the latest medical thinking does not reach the Americas quickly</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:22]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: they have not seen enough of war *sigh* to make this observation</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:23]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: perhaps...although they do have great scientists such as Dr. Franklin...but I do not know if any of their most forward looking thinkers do so in the field of medicine</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:24]<span> </span>Sere Timeless: The difficulty, I think, in discontinuing ineffective medical practice is that we know so little of the mechanisms of disease we cannot invent more effective practices.</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:25]<span> </span>Diogeneia: Well the King of Prussia when he was wounded in the 7 years war, I know they bled him...but for my brothers sake, I am glad the thinking changes...I have never felt very good after bleeding, and so I avoid it</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:26]<span> </span>JJ Drinkwater: We have begun to understand that health is a sign that the mechanism of the body is functioning correctly, but what that mechanism comprises is still largely a mystery, is it not?</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:26]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: to a great extent yes...but we have made great strides beyond merely saying, "here is what the ancients thought, so it must be correct"</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:27]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: the mechanisms are but we still have so much information about the course of the disease</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:27]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: that we can study it progression and learn form this</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:27]<span> </span>JJ Drinkwater bows "You are quite correct, signorina"</span><br /><span style="font-family:Helvetica;"></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:27]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: there is some very interesting thinking I have seen, for example in Diderot's encyclopedia...</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:28]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: and I note that often conclusions .. or theories at any rate, are based upon actually examination and autopsies</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:28]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: well, sickness occurs in living bodies! yet another practice that needs revision</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:29]<span> </span>Joseph-Hyacinthe de Rigaud: but recognizing an effective remedy, doesn’t necessarily mean we comprehend the mechanism behind, a lot is intuition, trial and error</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:30]<span> </span>JJ Drinkwater: So we have begun by casting off old certainties, and admitting our need of knowledge drawn from examples</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:30]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: We cannot wait to treat until we understand the mechanism, we have only trial and error - and critically, observation to aid us.</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:30]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: so are you arguing, Signore Conte and Lord Twilight, that the body is not unlike a machine...with predictable mechanisms at work?</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:31]<span> </span>JJ Drinkwater: That is the most modern medical thinking, as I understand it</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:31]<span> </span>Joseph-Hyacinthe de Rigaud: some could be predictable, provided we had proper insight</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:31]<span> </span>Sere Timeless: We have known for over a century from the work of Dr. William Harvey that blood flow, for example is a very mechanistic process.</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:31]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: and the spread of disease is also looking predictable</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:31]<span> </span>Joseph-Hyacinthe de Rigaud: oh yes</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:32]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: *smiles* then we may rule out such factors as demons and curses</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:32]<span> </span>Sere Timeless: Which would lead one to suspect that other mechanical and causal principles are at work in our bodies.</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:32]<span> </span>JJ Drinkwater: Are we not, after all, composed of matter? And does matter not behave according to certain laws?</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:33]<span> </span>Joseph-Hyacinthe de Rigaud: so true, but these laws seem so intricate</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:33]<span> </span>Diogeneia: ja, even the madness....or melancholia, it may seem to the uneducated that there is no mechanistic cause, but if you do enough observation, eventually one would surely find there is some rational reason for irrationality...</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:34]<span> </span>Diogeneia: too much bile, a fever in the brain, not enough of something, rather than a supernatural cause</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:35]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: *nods*</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:35]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: well the church will not like to hear this thinking!</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:35]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: even the ancients did not simply say, "oh well the gods are ill favored today and so they make us sick"</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:36]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: they made observations such as the influences of swampy areas on the health of their people...they noticed a connection to fetid water and decaying matter, and so either did not build near swampy ground, or they built their great drains to carry off the dampness</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:37]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: *smiles* something that we can learn from, especially for those who believe in the miasmatic theories of disease</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:38]<span> </span>Sere Timeless: And so is it the nature of human thought to be able to infer that there must be a causal connection even if we cannot explain the mechanism?</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:39]<span> </span>JJ Drinkwater: The causes, as M. le Comte has observed, are intricate</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:39]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: I think that was part of the Conte's point ... that even if we cannot be sure of the exact mechanism at work, we should act as best we can, based on our best understanding and observations</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:40]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: agreed. So again,</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:41]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: why does the practice of bleeding persist - is so accepted even when many in the field</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:41]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: know of its deleterious effects - is this to make the patients feel that they are getting care in spite of our lack of knowledge?</span><br /><span style="font-family:Helvetica;"></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:41]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: well going back to how doctors are trained</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:41]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: most after all do not attend a school of any sort, they study with an experienced doctor</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:42]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: and follow him as an assistant until they feel they know enough to practice</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:42]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: consequently, old habits and ideas will be passed on, no?</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:42]<span> </span>JJ Drinkwater: A valuable opportunity for observation, if they will use it</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:42]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: surely however if ones sees patients grow faint after bleeding, why recommend it? to collect coin?</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:42]<span> </span>Joseph-Hyacinthe de Rigaud: but some convictions are so difficult to eradicate, even if they have been proven to be wrong. We like continuity, and not be in uncertainty</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:43]<span> </span>Joseph-Hyacinthe de Rigaud: ...and so maintain our old beliefs</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:43]<span> </span>Joseph-Hyacinthe de Rigaud: but that's not the way forward</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:43]<span> </span>Diogeneia: maybe they don't like to admit how little they know, and fear business will diminish if they do too much experimenting and observation</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:43]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: it would be considered a poor doctor to be called to treat and not treat with something... rather than say, "bleeding will not help you, I do not know the cause, so just rest."</span></p><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:43]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: so may I ask...you all here are very forward thinking and enlightened people...what sorts of treatments for various maladies do you think are of value?</span> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:43]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: I myself, have observed how much better I feel after imbibing several cups of this excellent coffee...I may conclude from that that the chemicals in the mixture have some beneficial effect upon my internal mechanisms</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:44]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: *smiles* so I shall continue my experiments with great enthusiasm</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:44]<span> </span>Joseph-Hyacinthe de Rigaud: mmmm, nicotine, where are you? I have some experience on that</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:44]<span> </span>Sere Timeless: And certainly liquor produces the same feeling of well-being, at least for awhile.</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:44]<span> </span>Diogeneia: ah, there you go...the tabac as a potent medical herb...</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:44]<span> </span>Joseph-Hyacinthe de Rigaud: oooh, tell me, smiles</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:45]<span> </span>Diogeneia: my other brother ... the one who is a trader among the Indians of northern America...he has written me about how the natives use tabac as a medicinal</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:45]<span> </span>Sere Timeless: And yet, do we truly believe that tobacco and liquor are good for the body?</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:45]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: yes, funny how readily we adopt new cures and yet loathe to be rid of the old... We see how effective these medicines are, tobacco and coffee.</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:45]<span> </span>Diogeneia: they inhale the fumes for lung troubles, they make poultices of the leaves to put on wounds</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:45]<span> </span>Diogeneia: I myself am happy just to smoke it...</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:46]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: We see that they are good but to a point</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:46]<span> </span>Joseph-Hyacinthe de Rigaud: I feel so lucid after actually inhaling</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:46]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: the Conte's intricacies come into play here - a fine balance</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica;"> is necessary with these drugs</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:46]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: ah a good observation signorina Oona...</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:47]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: there is perhaps a balance of the chemicals that must be maintained...</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:47]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: and that even a good substance in too much quantity can be bad for the body</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:47]<span> </span>JJ Drinkwater: Indeed, it stimulates the mechanism....but how much stimulation will the mechanism bear?</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:47]<span> </span>Joseph-Hyacinthe de Rigaud: that's a good point, the doses, can be decisive also</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:47]<span> </span>Diogeneia: but that is true with any medicinal, ja? you take too little and it does no good...</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:48]<span> </span>Diogeneia: but too much, and maybe you get sicker</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:48]<span> </span>Joseph-Hyacinthe de Rigaud: if I drink much more coffee, I get all shaky</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:48]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: an excellent point</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:48]<span> </span>Joseph-Hyacinthe de Rigaud: and I have to vomit, if I inhale too much nicotine in whatever way</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:48]<span> </span>Joseph-Hyacinthe de Rigaud: so we're back to balance</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:48]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: and we all know the ill effects of too much wine</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:49]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: so we can establish this balance - a measure of how much is beneficial and how much becomes toxic</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:49]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: but might not that vary from individual to individual?</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:50]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: this could be easily determined by a little experimentation</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:50]<span> </span>Joseph-Hyacinthe de Rigaud: yes, it made a whole empire vanish, too much wine, lead in the vases</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:50]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: we could do it now!</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:50]<span> </span>Joseph-Hyacinthe de Rigaud: *grins*</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:50]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: obviously there are things that are poisons...</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:51]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: perhaps the poison comes form the dose and not the drug?</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:51]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: there are poisons that must be kept out of the water the people drink ... even the air they breath</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:51]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: as we see with coffee nicotine and alcohol as with belladonna</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:51]<span> </span>Joseph-Hyacinthe de Rigaud: I like that idea, of the dose/balance</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:51]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: and arsenic</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:51]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: going back to miasmas...what is in the air ... does that need balance as well?</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:51]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: ahhh you bring up a difficult one!</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:52]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: obviously there are always certain "particulates" in the air</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">: the effluvia that is given off by stale, standing water...</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:52]<span> </span>Joseph-Hyacinthe de Rigaud: indeed, I find that concept so hard to comprehend</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:52]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: it would seem to hold true - the cure, so to speak, may be to change or improve environment r</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">ather than dose</span></p><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:52]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: well. it seems obvious that decaying plants and animals</span> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:52]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: the wastes of men and beasts...</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:53]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: as they decay, they give off impurities...</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:53]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: obviously such things cannot always be avoided</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:53]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: they are part of the cycles of life</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:53]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: but it is when there is an imbalance that disease may result it seems...</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:53]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: they can be managed like a dose - the ancients managed these things very well</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:53]<span> </span>JJ Drinkwater: But how are we to examine these particulates, when they are so subtle? How are we to gain knowledge of them?</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:53]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: how have we lost this knowledge?</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:53]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: Again, is it not enough to start with the genereral observation, that when a city sits on a swampy field with rotting plant life...</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:53]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: *sigh*</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:54]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: or one is on a battlefield, the many dead decaying...</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:54]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: there is then too much of the effluvia and disease results?</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:55]<span> </span>Diogeneia: Lord Twilight has a good point...if you cannot see such things as the noxious gases given off by decaying matter...how can we capture and study them?</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:55]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: this seems apparent - but many more soldiers die of sickness than the injuries of war -</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:55]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: yes, and we observe that a city that wallows in its own wastes and has dirty water about ... and the people get sick often and in large numbers</span><br /><span style="font-family:Helvetica;"></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:55]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: so what mechanism is at play?</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:55]<span> </span>JJ Drinkwater: il Professore has partly answered me: we may know them by their effects</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:57]<span> </span>Joseph-Hyacinthe de Rigaud: identifying and quantifying gets us halfway already, could that be?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:57]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: we compare healthy tissue and unhealthy tissue to see what differences lie therein</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:57]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: or to use Herr Sterns example, we compare water in healthy cities and unhealthy ones</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:57]<span> </span>Diogeneia: or at least gives us a strategy to follow until we do understand better</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:57]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: Si, one must know what to treat in order to treat it</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:58]<span> </span>Diogeneia: like in the days of the plague, when the nobles left the cities and went to their country estates...they were getting away from the contagion as best they could</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:59]<span> </span>Sere Timeless: Is there anything to be gained from studying those who remain healthy even in the midst of unclean situations and rampant disease and contagion?</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:59]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: Signora brings an excellent question</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:59]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: an interesting idea Signorina Sere....how might one approach such a task?</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[13:59]<span> </span>JJ Drinkwater: Signorina Timeless, what would we study about them?</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:00]<span> </span>Sere Timeless: That is precisely my question, Signore.</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:00]<span> </span>Sere Timeless: Presumably there is something about them that renders them immune to disease.</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:00]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: or if we are looking at this purely as a mechanistic issue</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:01]<span> </span>Sere Timeless: What I have noticed is that those who have survived a disease such as the pox, do not seem to contract the same disease again.</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:01]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: there is something they do, something about how they live, what they eat, or something that keeps them from giving into the contagion</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:02]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: and...yes..there...having had the disease ... or something similar</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:02]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: renders a person less likely to get it again...</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:02]<span> </span>JJ Drinkwater: Perhaps Herr Van Leeuwenhoek wonderful device would tell us more, if we examined their tissues....although it is a grisly thought</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:02]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: a rational explanation, even we do not precisely understand the mechanism that makes it work so</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:03]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: Yes van Leeuwenhoek's work is very compelling</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:04]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: allowing us to see those differences between healthy and non healthy tissues</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:04]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: theses cells as he calls them</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:04]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: seem to undergo many changes</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:05]<span> </span>Diogeneia: there is much o be said for understanding the exact mechanisms of why something works as a treatment...or why an organ or healthy tissue becomes diseased...</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:05]<span> </span>Diogeneia: but for the most part I think the higher priority is to share information on what works, based on experience and observation...</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:06]<span> </span>Diogeneia: if we see that a poultice of tabac helps a wound to heal, then use it and worry later about why</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:06]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: on this we agree</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:06]<span> </span>JJ Drinkwater: But what if it seems to help in some cases and harm in others?</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:07]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: the colleges should come together with government to set some standards</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:07]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: that is why I think it is important for there to be publications like the encyclopedia of Diderot...to share the information about what helps and what causes harm</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:08]<span> </span>Sere Timeless: It would be well enough if the medical colleges would simply systematize the knowledge they already had about the efficacy of various cures.</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:08]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: It does seem to help in some and not in others - with open community of physicians, these experiences should be shared to</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:08]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: determine better treatments</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:08]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: and be implemented more universally</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:08]<span> </span>Oona Riaxik: Very true Ms. Timeless</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:09]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: then let us do some sharing...what do each of you think is one of the most important ideas in health and medicine to be discovered ... or agreed upon...in recent years?</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:09]<span> </span>JJ Drinkwater: Assuredly the circulation of the blood</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:10]<span> </span>JJ Drinkwater: For if blood circulates, may not other essential fluids, at whose existence we now only guess?</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:11]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: ah...now that is interesting</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:12]<span> </span>Sere Timeless: I regret to say, my friends, that I need to attend to some other matters at present. It grieves me to have to leave such an interesting discussion.</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:12]<span> </span>Joseph-Hyacinthe de Rigaud: au revoir Madame</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;">[14:12]<span> </span>Aldo Stern: thank you for joining us Signorina</span></p>Diohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14266713613721430111noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2265659668411443893.post-27330731159747779322011-11-02T21:11:00.000-07:002011-11-05T23:17:38.240-07:00Cats of Melioria<div style="text-align: center;">~~~</div><div style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEivVIJOmJ6At8p1AVVJQxkCR3zpz72FuGgM1rET59yaSjlnOSC1gDZFa-CXtF-NeAEY5SVnA5nhS8EwBAMOdwRHGa4215ra8V2Tq7h4cgRz781JY51OYAvTlsfJ1LMUCyg7tS0Pboek_CQ4/s1600/kitty+Snapshot_002.png" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 400px; height: 218px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEivVIJOmJ6At8p1AVVJQxkCR3zpz72FuGgM1rET59yaSjlnOSC1gDZFa-CXtF-NeAEY5SVnA5nhS8EwBAMOdwRHGa4215ra8V2Tq7h4cgRz781JY51OYAvTlsfJ1LMUCyg7tS0Pboek_CQ4/s400/kitty+Snapshot_002.png" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5670617856058285650" /></a></div><br /><br /><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi7B1SibAEo1ncT1Yu_5RMLY1tQ76epyFsf28f-9BFxVlSia_alYb1cgV1tNDfTbhLUJhgIXuaWd06ugf5d-GkXJA7oZVzqgQezcbcGDR8BDKW_9-lmioJzyN-JdwY_zIbZ1VpKX18zIGAa/s1600/kitty+Snapshot_006.png" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 400px; height: 218px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi7B1SibAEo1ncT1Yu_5RMLY1tQ76epyFsf28f-9BFxVlSia_alYb1cgV1tNDfTbhLUJhgIXuaWd06ugf5d-GkXJA7oZVzqgQezcbcGDR8BDKW_9-lmioJzyN-JdwY_zIbZ1VpKX18zIGAa/s400/kitty+Snapshot_006.png" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5670618446866450466" /></a><br /><i>"Why cats?"</i> you say...<br /><br /><i>"Why not?"</i> I reply.<br /><br />You point out, <i>"But there are already more pictures of cats than pornographic images on the web--Why more?"</i><br /><br /><br />Because I like cats. And it's easier putting up pictures of cats than it is actually writing shit.<br /><br />Plus these are pretty awesome one and two-prim cats made by Seu Ahn. They are "animated" and only 120 lindens each. Aren't they cool?<br /><br /><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj0KnAZUN7oXwX-xTzcbclHiHw1qEYSB9R6nHUz-5_YnQNgbf81214x-uCxhNom9ByBVx8nv8rcQ5ykmcgnG5VJgWsVd2gCkwh1IohfvNuXx3OefiZ5asXngXoWaKRmj-FWAR2umNRAnWuF/s1600/kitty+Snapshot_004.png" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 400px; height: 218px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj0KnAZUN7oXwX-xTzcbclHiHw1qEYSB9R6nHUz-5_YnQNgbf81214x-uCxhNom9ByBVx8nv8rcQ5ykmcgnG5VJgWsVd2gCkwh1IohfvNuXx3OefiZ5asXngXoWaKRmj-FWAR2umNRAnWuF/s400/kitty+Snapshot_004.png" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5670620495740989842" /></a><br />I apologize that I don't have a slurl to Seu's shop (which I think is called "Seu's Shop" or something like that). But if you really want to look at it and can't find it in search for some reason, IM me in-world and I'll give you a landmark.<br /><br /><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh3yep-JC-yS8lAmM89uSp0CvxAOhowJD2KKG8fI1brJaKIhN8pniv7yE1M2cR4vSvMxd_5VAaLlir4tzcOh1Bk3FTeVIGEM4pbGTOd4kxIJs7rqKWRYhD_4jDfCzp5UDoFhHbClzahJWW_/s1600/kitty+Snapshot_005.png" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 400px; height: 218px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh3yep-JC-yS8lAmM89uSp0CvxAOhowJD2KKG8fI1brJaKIhN8pniv7yE1M2cR4vSvMxd_5VAaLlir4tzcOh1Bk3FTeVIGEM4pbGTOd4kxIJs7rqKWRYhD_4jDfCzp5UDoFhHbClzahJWW_/s400/kitty+Snapshot_005.png" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5670621502017843986" /></a><br />...after all, what kind of waterfront village doesn't have cats?<br /><br /><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhWPcq9np1EoJrhGhtFp6JIrJnEUWwYGmpKM5E28Jh58spg3-7HWYRZIScRE4C7N7gS5hyiA1J1Ac1uI36UF6vyaTRVKO51A3yy_mVdRTxeRHcV9eNSXPxFvFjGUk2Qz_N74CfUhbVEnFci/s1600/kitty+Snapshot_009.png" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 400px; height: 218px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhWPcq9np1EoJrhGhtFp6JIrJnEUWwYGmpKM5E28Jh58spg3-7HWYRZIScRE4C7N7gS5hyiA1J1Ac1uI36UF6vyaTRVKO51A3yy_mVdRTxeRHcV9eNSXPxFvFjGUk2Qz_N74CfUhbVEnFci/s400/kitty+Snapshot_009.png" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5670619554036978610" /></a><div style="text-align: center;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: center;">~~~</div>Diohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14266713613721430111noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2265659668411443893.post-80493594419765389002011-09-20T07:19:00.000-07:002011-09-20T12:06:55.053-07:00What I am learning at the coffee house<br />
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<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: small;">Hey guys, we've been having more coffee house salon sessions in Melioria, and it's been fun and interesting. We've all been learning some things, not the least of which is a whole bunch of cool stuff about life and society in the 18th century. A big part of what helps with that is that before each session, we pull together some readings and share them on a notecard with various groups whose members that are invited to take part. For example, the most recent one, regrading crime and punishment, was preceded by a notecard with the following:</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">“The social treaty has for its end the preservation of the contracting parties. He who wills the end wills the means also, and the means must involve some risks, and even some losses. He who wishes to preserve his life at others' expense should also, when it is necessary, be ready to give it up for their sake. Furthermore, the citizen is no longer the judge of the dangers to which the law-desires him to expose himself; and when the prince says to him: "It is expedient for the State that you should die," he ought to die, because it is only on that condition that he has been living in security up to the present, and because his life is no longer a mere bounty of nature, but a gift made conditionally by the State.</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">The death-penalty inflicted upon criminals may be looked on in much the same light: it is in order that we may not fall victims to an assassin that we consent to die if we ourselves turn assassins. In this treaty, so far from disposing of our own lives, we think only of securing them, and it is not to be assumed that any of the parties then expects to get hanged.</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">Again, every malefactor, by attacking social rights, becomes on forfeit a rebel and a traitor to his country; by violating its laws be ceases to be a member of it; he even makes war upon it. In such a case the preservation of the State is inconsistent with his own, and one or the other must perish; in putting the guilty to death, we slay not so much the citizen as an enemy. The trial and the judgment are the proofs that he has broken the social treaty, and is in consequence no longer a member of the State. Since, then, he has recognised himself to be such by living there, he must be removed by exile as a violator of the compact, or by death as a public enemy; for such an enemy is not a moral person, but merely a man; and in such a case the right of war is to kill the vanquished.</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">But, it will be said, the condemnation of a criminal is a particular act. I admit it: but such condemnation is not a function of the Sovereign; it is a right the Sovereign can confer without being able itself to exert it. All my ideas are consistent, but I cannot expound them all at once.</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">We may add that frequent punishments are always a sign of weakness or remissness on the part of the government. There is not a single ill-doer who could not be turned to some good. The State has no right to put to death, even for the sake of making an example, any one whom it can leave alive without danger.</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">The right of pardoning or exempting the guilty from a penalty imposed by the law and pronounced by the judge belongs only to the authority which is superior to both judge and law, i.e., the Sovereign; each its right in this matter is far from clear, and the cases for exercising it are extremely rare. In a well-governed State, there are few punishments, not because there are many pardons, but because criminals are rare; it is when a State is in decay that the multitude of crimes is a guarantee of impunity. Under the Roman Republic, neither the Senate nor the Consuls ever attempted to pardon; even the people never did so, though it sometimes revoked its own decision. Frequent pardons mean that crime will soon need them no longer, and no one can help seeing whither that leads. But I feel my heart protesting and restraining my pen; let us leave these questions to the just man who has never offended, and would himself stand in no need of pardon.</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"> -- THE SOCIAL CONTRACT OR PRINCIPLES OF POLITICAL RIGHT, Book II, by Jean Jacques Rousseau, 1762</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"><b><i>Of the Origin of Punishments.</i></b></span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">Laws are the conditions under which men, naturally independent, united themselves in society. Weary of living in a continual state of war, and of enjoying a liberty which became of little value, from the uncertainty of its duration, they sacrificed one part of it, to enjoy the rest in peace and security. The sum of all these portions of the liberty of each individual constituted the sovereignty of a nation and was deposited in the hands of the sovereign, as the lawful administrator. But it was not sufficient only to establish this deposit; it was also necessary to defend it from the usurpation of each individual, who will always endeavour to take away from the mass, not only his own portion, but to encroach on that of others. Some motives therefore, that strike the senses were necessary to prevent the despotism of each individual from plunging society into its former chaos. Such motives are the punishments established, against the infractors of the laws. I say that motives of this kind are necessary; because experience shows, that the multitude adopt no established principle of conduct; and because society is prevented from approaching to that dissolution, (to which, as well as all other parts of the physical and moral world, it naturally tends,) only by motives that are the immediate objects of sense, and which being continually presented to the mind, are sufficient to counterbalance the effects of the passions of the individual which oppose the general good. Neither the power of eloquence nor the sublimest truths are sufficient to restrain, for any length of time, those passions which are excited by the lively impressions of present objects.</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"><b><i>Of the Punishment of Death.</i></b></span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">The useless profusion of punishments, which has never made men better induces me to inquire, whether the punishment of <i>death</i> be really just or useful in a well governed state? What <i>right</i>, I ask, have men to cut the throats of their fellow-creatures? Certainly not that on which the sovereignty and laws are founded. The laws, as I have said before, are only the sum of the smallest portions of the private liberty of each individual, and represent the general will, which is the aggregate of that of each individual. Did any one ever give to others the right of taking away his life? Is it possible that, in the smallest portions of the liberty of each, sacrificed to the good of the public, can be contained the greatest of all good, life? If it were so, how shall it be reconciled to the maxim which tells us, that a man has no right to kill himself, which he certainly must have, if he could give it away to another?</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">But the punishment of death is not authorised by any right; for I have demonstrated that no such right exists. It is therefore a war of a whole nation against a citizen whose destruction they consider as necessary or useful to the general good. But if I can further demonstrate that it is neither necessary nor useful, I shall have gained the cause of humanity.</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">The death of a citizen cannot be necessary but in one case: when, though deprived of his liberty, he has such power and connections as may endanger the security of the nation; when his existence may produce a dangerous revolution in the established form of government. But, even in this case, it can only be necessary when a nation is on the verge of recovering or losing its liberty, or in times of absolute anarchy, when the disorders themselves hold the place of laws: but in a reign of tranquillity, in a form of government approved by the united wishes of the nation, in a state well fortified from enemies without and supported by strength within, and opinion, perhaps more efficacious, where all power is lodged in the hands of a true sovereign, where riches can purchase pleasures and not authority, there can be no necessity for taking away the life of a subject.</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">If the experience of all ages be not sufficient to prove, that the punishment of death has never prevented determined men from injuring society, if the example of the Romans, if twenty years' reign of Elizabeth, empress of Russia, in which she gave the fathers of their country an example more illustrious than many conquests bought with blood; if, I say, all this be not sufficient to persuade mankind, who always suspect the voice of reason, and who choose rather to be led by authority, let us consult human nature in proof of my assertion.</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">It is not the intenseness of the pain that has the greatest effect on the mind, but its continuance; for our sensibility is more easily and more powerfully affected by weak but repeated impressions, than by a violent but momentary impulse. The power of habit is universal over every sensible being. As it is by that we learn to speak, to walk, and to satisfy our necessities, so the ideas of morality are stamped on our minds by repeated impression. The death of a criminal is a terrible but momentary spectacle, and therefore a less efficacious method of deterring others than the continued example of a man deprived of his liberty, condemned, as a beast of burden, to repair, by his labour, the injury he has done to society, <i>If I commit such a crime</i>, says the spectator to himself, <i>I shall be reduced to that miserable condition for the rest of my life.</i> A much more powerful preventive than the fear of death which men always behold in distant obscurity.</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">The terrors of death make so slight an impression, that it has not force enough to withstand the forgetfulness natural to mankind, even in the most essential things, especially when assisted by the passions. Violent impressions surprise us, but their effect is momentary; they are fit to produce those revolutions which instantly transform a common man into a Lacedaemonian or a Persian; but in a free and quiet government they ought to be rather frequent than strong.</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">The execution of a criminal is to the multitude a spectacle which in some excites compassion mixed with indignation. These sentiments occupy the mind much more than that salutary terror which the laws endeavor to inspire; but, in the contemplation of continued suffering, terror is the only, or at least predominant sensation. The severity of a punishment should be just sufficient to excite compassion in the spectators, as it is intended more for them than for the criminal.</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">A punishment, to be just, should have only that degree of severity which is sufficient to deter others. Now there is no man who upon the least reflection, would put in competition the total and perpetual loss of his liberty, with the greatest advantages he could possibly obtain in consequence of a crime. Perpetual slavery, then, has in it all that is necessary to deter the most hardened and determined, as much as the punishment of death. I say it has more. There are many who can look upon death with intrepidity and firmness, some through fanaticism, and others through vanity, which attends us even to the grave; others from a desperate resolution, either to get rid of their misery, or cease to live: but fanaticism and vanity forsake the criminal in slavery, in chains and fetters, in an iron cage, and despair seems rather the beginning than the end of their misery. The mind, by collecting itself and uniting all its force, can, for a moment, repel assailing grief; but its most vigorous efforts are insufficient to resist perpetual wretchedness.</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">In all nations, where death is used as a punishment, every example supposes a new crime committed; whereas, in perpetual slavery, every criminal affords a frequent and lasting example; and if it be necessary that men should often be witnesses of the power of the laws, criminals should often be put to death: but this supposes a frequency of crimes; and from hence this punishment will cease to have its effect, so that it must be useful and useless at the same time.</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">Of Crimes and Punishments, Cesare Bonesana, Marchese Beccaria, 1764</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">*************************************</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">OF PUNISHMENTS</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">The misfortunes of the wretched in the face of the severity of the law have induced me to look at the criminal code of nations. The humane author of the essay, <i>Of Crimes and Punishments</i>, is only too right in complaining that punishment is much too often out of proportion to the crime, and sometimes detrimental to the nation it was intended to serve.</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">Ingenious punishments, in which the human mind seems to have exhausted itself in order to make death terrible, seem rather the inventions of tyranny than of justice.</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">The punishment of the wheel was first introduced in Germany in times of anarchy, when those who seized royal power wished to terrify, by the device of an unheard-of torture, whoever would dare to rise up against them. In England they used to rip open the belly of a man convicted of high treason, tear out his heart, slap his cheeks with it, and then throw it into the fire. And what, very frequently, was this crime of high treason? During the civil wars, it was to have been faithful to an unfortunate king, and sometimes had to be explained according to the doubtful rights of a conqueror. In time, manners became milder; it is true that they continue to tear out the heart, but it is always after the death of the criminal. The torture is terrible but the death is easy, if death can ever be easy.</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">IX</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">OF WITCHES</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">In 1749 a woman was burned in the Bishopric of Wurtzburg, convicted of being a witch. This is an extraordinary phenomenon in the age in which we live. Is it possible that people who boast of their reformation and of trampling superstition under foot, who indeed supposed that they had reached the perfection of reason, could nevertheless believe in witchcraft, and this more than a hundred years after the so-called reformation of their reason?</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">In 1652 a peasant woman named Michelle Chaudron, living in the little territory of Geneva, met the devil going out of the city. The devil gave her a kiss, received her homage, and imprinted on her upper lip and right breast the mark that he customarily bestows on all whom he recognizes as his favorites. This seal of the devil is a little mark which makes the skin insensitive, as all the demonographical jurists of those times affirm.</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">The devil ordered Michelle Chaudron to bewitch two girls. She obeyed her master punctually. The girls' parents accused her of witchcraft before the law. The girls were questioned and confronted with the accused. They declared that they felt a continual pricking in certain parts of their bodies and that they were possessed. Doctors were called, or at least, those who passed for doctors at that time. They examined the girls. They looked for the devil's seal on Michelle's body — what the statement of the case called <i>satannic marks</i>. Into them they drove a long needle, already a painful torture. Blood flowed out, and Michelle made it known, by her cries, that satannic marks certainly do not make one insensitive. The judges, seeing no definite proof that Michelle Chaudron was a witch, proceeded to torture her, a method that infallibly produces the necessary proofs: this wretched woman, yielding to the violence of torture, at last confessed every thing they desired.</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">The doctors again looked for the satannic mark. They found a little black spot on one of her thighs. They drove in the needle. The torment of the torture had been so horrible that the poor creature hardly felt the needle; thus the crime was established. But as customs were becoming somewhat mild at that time, she was burned only after being hanged and strangled.</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">In those days every tribunal of Christian Europe resounded with similar arrests. The faggots were lit everywhere for witches, as for heretics. People reproached the Turks most for having neither witches nor demons among them. This absence of demons was considered an infallible proof of the falseness of a religion.</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">A zealous friend of public welfare, of humanity, of true religion, has stated in one of his writings on behalf of innocence, that Christian tribunals have condemned to death over a hundred thousand accused witches. If to these judicial murders are added the infinitely superior number of massacred heretics, that part of the world will seem to be nothing but a vast scaffold covered with torturers and victims, surrounded by judges, guards and spectators.</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">X</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">OF CAPITAL PUNISHMENT</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">It is an old saying that a man after he is hanged is good for nothing, and that the punishments invented for the welfare of society should be useful to that society. It is clear that twenty vigorous thieves, condemned to hard labor at public works for the rest of their life, serve the state by their punishment; and their death would serve only the executioner, who is paid for killing men in public. Only rarely are thieves punished by death in England; they are transported overseas to the colonies. The same is true in the vast Russian empire. Not a single criminal was executed during the reign of the autocratic Elizabeth. Catherine II who succeeded her, endowed with a very superior mind, followed the same policy. Crimes have not increased as a result of this humanity, and almost always, criminals banished to Siberia become good men. The same thing has been noticed in the English colonies. This happy change astonishes us, but nothing is more natural. These condemned men are forced to work constantly in order to live. Opportunities for vice are lacking; they marry and have children. Force men to work and you make them honest. It is well known that great crimes are not committed in the country, except, perhaps, when too many holidays bring on idleness and lead to debauchery.</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">A Roman citizen was condemned to death only for crimes affecting the welfare of the state. Our teachers, our first legislators, respected the blood of their fellow citizens; we lavish that of ours.</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">This dark and delicate question has been long discussed: whether judges may punish by death when the law does not expressly require this punishment. This question was solemnly debated before Emperor Henri IV. He judged, and decided that no magistrate could have this power.</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">There are some criminal cases that are so unusual or so complicated, or are accompanied by such strange circumstances, that the law itself has been forced in more than one country to leave these singular cases to the discretion of the judges. If there really should be one instance in which the law permits a criminal to be put to death who has not committed a capital offense, there will be a thousand instances in which humanity, which is stronger than the law, should spare the life of those whom the law has sentenced to death.</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">The sword of justice is in our hands; but we ought to blunt it more often than sharpen it. It is carried in its sheath before kings, to warn us that it should be rarely drawn.</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">There have been judges who loved to make blood flow; such was Jeffreys in England; such in France was a man who was called <i>coupe-tête</i>. Men like these were not born to be judges; nature made them to be executioners.</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">-- “A COMMENTARY ON THE BOOK, <i>Of Crimes and Punishments,” </i></span><span style="font: 12px Times; letter-spacing: 0px;">Voltaire, 1766</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">“Laws too gentle, are seldom obeyed; too severe, seldom executed.” </span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">- Benjamin Franklin</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">more of interest: </span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;">http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Academic/England_18thc./England_18thc.html</span></div>
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<span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: small;">Fun stuff, yes? We don't always have readings that are as long as those, but this was a really intriguing subject. And we've learned that for people to have the readings in advnace helps a great deal in prepping the folks for the discussion, especially as the conversation is taking place "in character" in the year 1780. And there is something else we learned. Doing that--conducting the discussion in an historical context, conversing as if we are people looking at the issue in question as 18th century people, makes for an interesting exercise. It also makes it more fun, and that, in turn makes the content more memorable.</span></span></div>
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: small;">The following is a transcript of the salon session about crime and punishment:</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:05] Aldo Stern: I suspect we shall have a modest turnout</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:05] Aldo Stern: perhaps the topic is considered by some a bit "dry"</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:05] Mercury Gandt: On the contrary, I fond it rather "juicy"</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:06] Diogeneia: I would think so</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:06] Aldo Stern: it is a topic that certainly affects us all...</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:07] Aldo Stern: after all, when you look at crime from a philosophical standpoint...</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:08] Aldo Stern: it is an attack on that social agreement that makes society function</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:09] Diogeneia: I have been looking at what various thinkers have written on crime, and they all seem to agree that human nature is inclined to do things we would call crime, and it must be punished</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:10] Aldo Stern: oh I am sure that there are those who think man in his ideal state would not turn to crime, but I fear our practical experience suggests otherwise</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:10] Aldo Stern: what do you think Donna Sere</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:10] Sere Timeless: The notion of punishment is deeply seated in religion.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:10] Aldo Stern: is human nature inclined more to be good, if given the chance, or are we naturally selfish?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:11] Sere Timeless: The fallible nature of mankind goes back to the original sin in the Garden of Eden.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:12] Diogeneia: so you think we are naturally inclined to pick pockets and cheat at cards because of Adam and eve?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:12] Mercury Gandt: I can only tell you, what I have seen in my life:</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:12] Mercury Gandt: I know so called criminals, who</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:12] Mercury Gandt: after committing crimes, never feel shame or regret - ever</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:13] Mercury Gandt: They are only bothered by the possibility of getting caught</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:14] Sere Timeless: And yet there are so many other people who would never even consider breaking the law unless their life and well-being depended on it.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:14] Aldo Stern: so should we work harder to teach people that they should want to obey laws, or is the threat of being caught and punished more useful?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:15] Diogeneia: maybe a bit of both</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:15] Mercury Gandt: Or is it in their character maybe?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:15] Aldo Stern: Well Donna Sere is saying it is the character of some to never wish to break the laws</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:15] Sere Timeless: Certainly one cannot underestimate the value of punishment as a deterrent. Some people obviously need more deterrent than others.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:16] Aldo Stern: and the nature of others to be criminals</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:16] Aldo Stern: so perhaps Baronessa is correct we need both encouragement--or prevention and punishment</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:16] Mercury Gandt: What most surprised me in these readings is, that the authors believe in the good nature of people</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:16] Aldo Stern: but how much punishment</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:16] Aldo Stern: and what kind is necessary?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:17] Diogeneia: in the Prussian army, the worst crime was desertion...</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:17] Diogeneia: you know how the great king worked to prevent it?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:18] Sere Timeless: And what was the punishment for desertion?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:18] Diogeneia: first he made sure the soldiers were fed well and had pride in their profession</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:18] Diogeneia: then he reduced the chances of deserting...</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:18] Diogeneia: for example he would never set up a camp near a forest if he could help it</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:18] Diogeneia: the woods are a deserter's best friend</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:19] Diogeneia: and then of course if you deserted and were caught by the gendarmerie, you were flogged</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:19] Diogeneia: so it was prevention AND punishment</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:19] Mercury Gandt: Very wise, I think</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:20] Aldo Stern: On the other hand, you have penal code such as in England, where pretty much everything you technically can be executed for is everything:</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:21] Aldo Stern: Theft of property is treated as seriously as treason or murder</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:21] Sere Timeless: Which gets to the question of how one decides the appropriate extent of the punishment for a certain crime.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:22] Diogeneia: ah but if your crime is not serious in England, can't they transport you instead of hanging you?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:22] Aldo Stern: well they were doing that, but now that their American colonies are in rebellion they will need a new place to send convicts to.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:23] Aldo Stern: Let us go back for a moment to Signor Gandt's comment</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:24] Aldo Stern: you observed that in the readings--Rousseau, Beccaria and Voltaire, there was an emphasis you thought, on the goodness of human nature?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:24] Mercury Gandt: Yes - they believe, every criminal can be useful or good in the future</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:25] Mercury Gandt: And they are able to make self-improvement by the punishment</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:25] Diogeneia: ah but I think Voltaire was also saying some you can't make them good themselves...</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:26] Diogeneia: but you can turn them into a useful thing for society by sentencing them to labor in the dockyards or rowing a galley or something like that</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:26] Aldo Stern: which the French do of course...</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:26] Aldo Stern: they have gotten away from executing men and instead send them to work in the royal dockyards and arsenals</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:27] Aldo Stern: basically as slaves</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:27] Mercury Gandt: Very economic (smiles)</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:28] Aldo Stern: but are you suggesting Signor Gandt, that the criminal more than likely can't be changed in his ways? that the leopard may never change his spots?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:28] Mercury Gandt: I doubt that this kind of work would be useful at all, done by people who hate it, living in chains</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:28] Diogeneia: ha you are probably right</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:29] Mercury Gandt: and all their thoughts are around eloping</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:29] Diogeneia: I am not so sure I would wish to sail on a ship that had been repaired by angry antisocial lunatics</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:29] Mercury Gandt: One of the authors said: give them work and they will be honest</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:29] Mercury Gandt: but I would say: give them a goal in their life to reach</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:30] Mercury Gandt: and they won't be criminals</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:30] Aldo Stern: oh?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:30] Mercury Gandt: give them a reward for their work</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:30] Sere Timeless: Voltaire, I believe, said that</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:30] Mercury Gandt: which they cab gain realistically, though not easily</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:31] Aldo Stern: so then, Signor Gandt, do you basically agree with the idea that the death penalty should not be used as often as it is in some places such as England and a few of the various Italian city states?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:32] Mercury Gandt: I have never met anyone committing such a serious crime, so</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:32] Mercury Gandt: I cannot imagine who this man or woman could be...</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:32] Mercury Gandt: but</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:33] Mercury Gandt: I remember one of my older friends telling about the execution of Damiens</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:33] Mercury Gandt: And I never forget it, though I hadn't been there at all!</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:34] Diogeneia: I think I agree that if you execute someone, it must be for the worst thing possible...</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:35] Mercury Gandt: Yes, exceptional and very rarely done - to remember us what happened in that case</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:35] Diogeneia: in a place like England I think hanging is no deterrent, as you get hung for stealing a watch or shooting a man dead</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:36] Diogeneia: so if you are a highway man, might you not figure, "well I just stole this fellow's watch, I may as well shoot him so he doesn't tell on me...I get hung either way"</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:36] Sere Timeless: If laws are created to ensure that everyone is behaving consistently with the common good, shouldn't punishments also be consistent with the common good?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:36] Aldo Stern: a good point Baronessa</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:37] Sere Timeless: A dead criminal can't contribute anything, but a thief forced into labor to repay can contribute something.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:37] Aldo Stern: could you elaborate on that idea, Donna Sere?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:38] Aldo Stern: so you are saying that as Beccaria suggests, the punishment should fit the crime?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:38] Sere Timeless: I do think that is best for society, Professore.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:38] Sere Timeless: And the punishments need to be consistent for whoever commits a certain crime.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:39] Sere Timeless: I find that the wealthy can get away with quite a lot because of their status ins society.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:39] Diogeneia: this is why in Prussian army they flog the deserter, they don't shoot him if they don't have to....they hate to waste a trained man</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:40] Aldo Stern: yes, laws are not applied evenly in most cases</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:41] Diogeneia: I think punishment works best as a deterrent if the law is applied justly for all</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:42] Diogeneia: but I might say differently if I was actually wealthy</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:42] Sere Timeless: And what should the punishment be for the judge who does not apply the law equally?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:42] Aldo Stern: a good question</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:43] Mercury Gandt: Well, there is everywhere a monarch and a government who makes the law</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:43] Diogeneia: *shrugs* if he is wealthy then he should be punished where he would feel it most...his backside is probably too well padded to feel much sting of a flogging, so fine him and hit him in the pocketbook</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:43] Mercury Gandt: The monarch is above the law</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:44] Mercury Gandt: I'm afraid, the monarch's tradition is defining the philosophy of punishment in his country.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:44] Mercury Gandt: I mean if the monarch is practical, like your Prussian King the system of punishment is about preventing, in a practical and economical way</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:45] Aldo Stern: perhaps the monarch is one class of citizen where the best course is to educate them and make sure they understand civic virtue and their responsibility to society</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:45] Sere Timeless: And if the monarch does not apply the laws equally will there not be revolt as there is in the English colonies in North America?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:45] Mercury Gandt: Yes - if the monarch is not sure about his own rule...</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:46] Aldo Stern: though there have been examples of King who has been punished...your English parliament cut off King Charles head after all</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:46] Mercury Gandt: he will force punishments by pure power</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:46] Mercury Gandt: Punishments will all about the monarchy's power</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:46] Mercury Gandt: and about people or our society</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:47] Diogeneia: perhaps you punish a monarch by taking away some of his power</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:47] Aldo Stern: let us go back to the issue of death penalties</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:47] Aldo Stern: what do you think are crimes for which it should be applied?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:48] Mercury Gandt: Yes, I think, Beccaria was implying King Charles when writing about the death penalty....</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:48] Aldo Stern: Rousseau too, perhaps...he was saying that you only execute someone who has the power and the will to hurt the state</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:49] Mercury Gandt: Yes... they describe a kind of dictatorship</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:49] Diogeneia: Like a King who is acting badly?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:49] Mercury Gandt smiles on the boldness of the Baronessa</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:49] Aldo Stern: what about murder?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:50] Aldo Stern: Donna Sere you mentioned the religious origins of our sense of crime and punishment--is an "eye for an eye" just?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:50] Sere Timeless: That is the Old Testament view of punishment, Professore.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:50] Aldo Stern: so then would it be right for society to kill a man who had killed one of his fellow citizens?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:51] Sere Timeless: The more Christian view is to have a criminal redeem himself by penance and good works.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:51] Mercury Gandt: And now we see the moral point of view of punishments :)</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:52] Diogeneia: if good works is being an unpaid workers in the royal shipyard, I still don't want to sail on a ship that has been fixed by a crazy killer</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:53] Aldo Stern: always the pragmatist, Baronessa</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:54] Diogeneia: you bet. I didn't get this old by relying on an idealized view of human nature</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:54] Sere Timeless: I should rather sail in a ship whose timbers had been hewn by a criminal in the royal forests.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:54] Mercury Gandt laughs - And pragmatism will always conquer the moral point of view</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:54] Mercury Gandt: Better though, than a power-centered point of view conquering</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:55] Aldo Stern: but what about deterring crime?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:55] Aldo Stern: what do you think Signor Gandt, you say you know some criminal types--what would turn them away from a life of crime?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:56] Mercury Gandt: Hmmm... some of them are in the Debtors' Prison :)</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:56] Mercury Gandt: Maybe laws would prevent them to choose crime</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:57] Mercury Gandt: That kind of laws can allow them to follow their plans - for example, new laws about inheritance, marriage</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:58] Diogeneia: well to me, and this is as a pragmatist...</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:58] Mercury Gandt: Laws that can offer them the possibility to earn their living</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:58] Diogeneia: I think you make sure people have enough to eat, they are protected from abuse, and they know their role in society is important...</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:58] Diogeneia: less so they will be to turn to crime</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[08:59] Sere Timeless: Wise observations, Baronessa.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:00] Diogeneia: not so wise I think--I just know what I know from watching people</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:00] Mercury Gandt: And I agree, you are right</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:00] Sere Timeless: What does the group think about the practice of branding criminals like livestock so that they carry the stigma of their crime for the rest of their lives?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:02] Mercury Gandt: Very medieval?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:02] Aldo Stern: I think that goes against Signor Gandt's point that you have to enable people to make a living to keep them from crime...if you brand someone and mark them forever, will it not be harder for them to find work?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:02] Sere Timeless: Do you think it is unnecessary or counter-productive Signore Gandt?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:02] Aldo Stern: not many people willingly will hire a branded thief, I suspect</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:02] Aldo Stern: so that person will have no choice but to turn to crime</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:03] Mercury Gandt: That stigma will force him to stay on the way of crime....</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:03] Diogeneia: yes, exactly</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:03] Diogeneia: it is silly, where is the sense in branding someone? it is just being cruel and stupid</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:04] Mercury Gandt: Well.. (looking at the fingers of the ladies, searching for a wedding ring...)</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:04] Aldo Stern: alas Baronessa, cruelty and stupidity are hallmarks of many legal systems throughout Europe</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:04] Mercury Gandt: Branding someone...</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:06] Aldo Stern: it is like the old practice of cutting off a thief's hand--probably another Old Testament carryover, do you think, Donna Sere?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:06] Aldo Stern: that is another form of branding</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:06] Aldo Stern: and one which made it even harder for the miscreant to find useful work</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:07] Sere Timeless: It seems quite similar in intent, though branding does make it possible for the former criminal to do honest work in the future.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:07] Sere Timeless: Cutting off a thief's hand renders him incapable to doing much useful work.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:08] Diogeneia: maybe all a fellow is good for then is begging</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:09] Aldo Stern: I know some people might argue that such punishments serve as a lesson tithe public and discourage others from turning to crime...</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:09] Aldo Stern: but I have not seen crime greatly reduced in places where the punishments are cruel and numerous.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:10] Mercury Gandt: :) Except, there are no more assassination against the French King since the execution of Damiens</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:11] Sere Timeless: Not yet at least, Signor Gandt.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:11] Mercury Gandt: :) not yet</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:11] Diogeneia: and who knows maybe there are none for other reasons</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:12] Diogeneia: just because one thing follows another, does not mean the one caused the other</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:12] Mercury Gandt: For instance? what other reasons can be considered?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:13] Aldo Stern: perhaps the king's network of informers is doing a better job ...</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:13] Mercury Gandt: I would never think of that... (laughs)</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:14] Aldo Stern: perhaps the king is staying in places where it is harder for possible assassins to get at him</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:14] Aldo Stern: he avoids going to Paris</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:14] Aldo Stern: he avoids contact with people outside the inner circles of the court</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:14] Mercury Gandt: Indeed it's true</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:15] Mercury Gandt: Because the conditions in his country are hardly any better...</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:15] Aldo Stern: yes</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:18] Aldo Stern: although he was probably a bit mad</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:18] Sere Timeless: Professore, this has been a fascinating discussion, but I'm afraid I must take my leave.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:18] Aldo Stern: Donna Sere, thank you for joining us</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:18] Diogeneia: Auf wiedersehen</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:18] Sere Timeless: Signore Gandt, Baronessa it has been lovely to see you. And Professore also.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:19] Mercury Gandt: It was my pleasure</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:19] Aldo Stern: thank you for your contributions to the discussion</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;">[09:19] Sere Timeless curtsies.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: small;"><br /></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: small;">Finally, let me conclude with one other thing we seem to be learning: having modest attendance is not necessarily a bad thing. Some of the best discussions have been with very small groups of participants. But then that is one of the beauties of the platform, isn't it? Doing this in virtual space is very cost effective compared to running an event in meatspace. Therefore, you don't need to worry about having a big hairy audience in the same way that you do when you are meeting in a bricks and mortar space, and you feel a need to justify the expense and effort that goes with using that type of venue.</span><br />
<div style="text-align: center;">
<span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: small;">~~~</span></div>
Diohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14266713613721430111noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2265659668411443893.post-55484629250195360512011-08-04T13:56:00.000-07:002011-08-04T14:13:02.366-07:00Another Melioria coffee house salon transcript: Tolerance in the Englightenment<p style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">~~~<br /><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEidhRIo6I_TdKxS8-OloBDTTO6Jeirubm_MV3Rkzx3htv2DeIo3RWMZcxBDjSsJB6892pnddF0GSZI6pyYCFNoJJwqsfvTzVWR19paeo62cDvGsyqvt3ai3fSk2MZkVNWfo8NSM3gfyFCq7/s1600/Salon23July11_0011.png"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 400px; height: 196px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEidhRIo6I_TdKxS8-OloBDTTO6Jeirubm_MV3Rkzx3htv2DeIo3RWMZcxBDjSsJB6892pnddF0GSZI6pyYCFNoJJwqsfvTzVWR19paeo62cDvGsyqvt3ai3fSk2MZkVNWfo8NSM3gfyFCq7/s400/Salon23July11_0011.png" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5637111254291496482" border="0" /></a>Our coffee House Salon held on July 23, 2011<br /><br /></span></p><p><span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">My apologies for my tardiness in posting this--the convoluted adventure that is my meatspace existence has delayed me from attending to more important issues. What follows is the transcript from out second "coffee house salon" on the island of Melioria in Second Life. The subject was Tolerance in the Enlightenment, and participants prepared by reading a variety of pieces from the period including John Locke's Letters on Tolerance, an excerpt from an 18th century German play in which Jewish and Muslim characters were treated with great sympathy and respect, and the one of the key British anti-catholic laws of the 18th century. Please keep in mind that the discussion was conducted "in character" set in the year 1780 (which kept us from including some later interesting materials). </span><br /></p><p>[08:12] Aldo Stern: The topic for today is...tolerance...particularly as it applies to various religions and religious affiliations in Europe.</p> <p>[08:13] Aldo Stern: have you all had the opportunity to look at the readings that the Baronessa and I prepared in advance?</p> <p>[08:14] OFlaherty Dreadlow: I confess that I haven't.</p> <p>[08:14] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): Quite allright that is. It is merely to get the conversation going.</p> <p>[08:14] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): Yes, I have looked at the materials. And have been reviewing some recent publications by Monsieur’s Rousseau and Voltaire.</p> <p>[08:15] OFlaherty Dreadlow: Ah, yes....I did read through it quickly.</p> <p>[08:15] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): and I would start there...</p> <p>[08:15] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): The Professore wanted to put the quote from the Jew, Shylock, at the beginning ... what did you have in mind with that, Herr Professor?</p> <p>[08:15] OFlaherty Dreadlow: There are, of course, newer writings...from our friends in the erstwhile colonies.</p> <p>[08:16] OFlaherty Dreadlow: Jefferson, for one</p> <p>[08:16] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): Indeed. Mr. Jefferson has stirred up quite a bit of trouble with his Declaration of Independence.</p> <p>[08:16] Aldo Stern: oh excellent points...we will get to those in minute...</p> <p>[08:16] Aldo Stern: in answer to the Baronessa, I put that piece from the play there, because I think it represents something ...the mixed state of tolerance and it's cousins, empathy and acceptance, in Europe have been for some time and remain mixed.</p> <p>[08:18] Aldo Stern: the playwright puts words in Shylock's mouth that imply an understanding of the injustice of his situation and of his people.</p> <p>[08:18] Aldo Stern: at the same time, that he is unlikable character and comes out badly in the end of the play.</p> <p>[08:19] Aldo Stern: our feelings versus our ideals are often at odds...</p> <p>[08:19] Aldo Stern: but let us start with ideals...Sere, you mentioned looking at Rousseau and others...what did you take away from reviewing their thoughts on tolerance?</p> <p>[08:20] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): The idea that it is important to separate religious allegiance from civil allegiance.</p> <p>[08:20] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): That for the good of the state we must allow every person the right to their own religious practice.</p> <p>[08:21] Aldo Stern: then they are saying societies should tolerate religious differences not so much for ideals, but for pragmatic reasons?</p> <p>[08:22] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): I think so. But both Rousseau and Voltaire clearly believe there are some common civil ideals that must bind us all together.</p> <p>[08:23] Aldo Stern: civil ideals , but not spiritual ones?</p> <p>[08:23] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): It is interesting, I think, that both of those gentleman seem to separate the two. Yet when each talks about civic/civil ideas they seem very much grounded in the Christian tradition.</p> <p>[08:24] Aldo Stern: interesting, indeed...</p> <p>[08:24] Aldo Stern: your Lordship, you mentioned the American, Signore Jefferson...do you have some insights into how he views the issue?</p> <p>[08:24] OFlaherty Dreadlow: Well, that touches on what I think is the crucial point.</p> <p>[08:24] Aldo Stern: yes?</p> <p>[08:24] OFlaherty Dreadlow: Note that we tend to talk about religious tolerance....</p> <p>[08:25] OFlaherty Dreadlow: In essence, that means that we "tolerate" those with dissenting--that is, incorrect--views for the sake of a civil society.</p> <p>[08:25] OFlaherty Dreadlow: Jefferson wrote the Statute of Religious FREEDOM in 1777.</p> <p>[08:26] OFlaherty Dreadlow: That states that ALL religious points of view--from the point of the state--are equally valid and is revolutionary</p> <p>[08:27] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): I wonder if Mr. Jefferson would be quite so tolerant of a religion that required human sacrifice. That would seem to put religious beliefs and the common good at odds.</p> <p>[08:27] OFlaherty Dreadlow: And, if I may broach a delicate subject, why most of views like that were hidden in secret societies.</p> <p>[08:28] OFlaherty Dreadlow: That would violate a basic civil law and could be banned on that basis.</p> <p>[08:29] Aldo Stern: but then is not Signore Jefferson essentially a deist.</p> <p>[08:30] OFlaherty Dreadlow: He was but it was not crucial for him to be a deist to believe that--from society's point of view--all religions are valid.</p> <p>[08:30] Aldo Stern: taking a philosophical perspective that there is a Divine, and all religions are some form of manifestation of that, and consequently all valid.</p> <p>[08:31] OFlaherty Dreadlow: It's important to keep in mind that one period of "tolerance" can be followed by one of intolerance when those in "hiding" come out in the open and are...removed.</p> <p>[08:31] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): I think his Lordship makes a interesting point about the revolutionary nature of this...as it does seem to be a mix of principles and ideals ... it is good for the state for the different groups to be productive elements of society.</p> <p>[08:31] OFlaherty Dreadlow: Hence, the Masons....even more, speaking of Jefferson, hence the Illuminati.</p> <p>[08:31] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): but also there is an idealism there.</p> <p>[08:32] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): it not just simply like with the Jews in some places where they are tolerated, but not accepted, because of their banking skills and resources.</p> <p>[08:33] OFlaherty Dreadlow: Exactly, until the wealth those areas provide become tempting and subject to jealousy.</p> <p>[08:33] Aldo Stern: yes, or they are perceived as becoming too politically powerful.</p> <p>[08:33] OFlaherty Dreadlow: Indeed.</p> <p>[08:34] OFlaherty Dreadlow: AND they are identifiable because of the earlier "tolerance."</p> <p>[08:34] Aldo Stern: as happened when the British were considering a naturalization act for the Jews back in the 1750s.</p> <p>[08:34] Aldo Stern: popular opinion was stirred up and the act failed not so much on issues of faith, but because many English people feared the Jews could take control of their political affairs.</p> <p>[08:35] OFlaherty Dreadlow: Which brings us to the crux of the problem: human nature that seeks to protect itself by attacking the "other"</p> <p>[08:36] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): well is that not why the Freemasons are suppressed some places--fear of their power and influence?</p> <p>[08:36] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): and isn't that what happened to the Jesuits as well?</p> <p>[08:36] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): And it is often easier to "justify" acts of intolerance and suppression by appealing to religious belief and God, than to admit to jealousy and fear.</p> <p>[08:37] OFlaherty Dreadlow: At the moment, their influence is open--consider General Washington--but there will undoubtedly be a reaction from those outside their area of power.</p> <p>[08:37] Aldo Stern: well that is a very complex chicken and egg thing isn't it?</p> <p>[08:37] Aldo Stern: like with Catholics in Britain</p> <p>[08:37] Aldo Stern: there is a fundamental ideological difference between the catholic and protestant perspectives</p> <p>[08:38] Aldo Stern: they each think they are the one true version of Christianity.</p> <p>[08:38] OFlaherty Dreadlow: Yes, I fear my mother's family (I'm half British/half Irish) will suffer much for their refusal to "conform"</p> <p>[08:39] Aldo Stern: but in trying to impose the ideals, there is a see-saw history of struggling for power, and kings of the different faiths, and the gunpowder plot and the Jacobites uprising... and on and on.</p> <p>[08:39] Aldo Stern: there is fear of Catholics among protestant Britons not just because of issues of faith, but because of the history that is there.</p> <p>[08:40] Aldo Stern: that is why they have the settlement act regarding the faith that their rulers must adhere to.</p> <p>[08:40] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): which we had in our notes</p> <p>[08:40] Aldo Stern: yes, Baronessa, we did</p> <p>[08:40] Aldo Stern: thank you for finding that</p> <p>[08:40] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): *grins*</p> <p>[08:40] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): One thing that makes Britain and the papal states different from many other nations is the fact that their civil authority -- the king or the Pope -- is also a religious authority.</p> <p>[08:41] Aldo Stern: ah an important point...head of state as also head of the state religion.</p> <p>[08:41] OFlaherty Dreadlow: All wars--both military and political--believe that THEIR war will end all wars.</p> <p>[08:42] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): Hence the appearance, and often the reality, is that if you don't conform to the state religion you are somehow a lesser citizen.</p> <p>[08:42] Aldo Stern: well speaking of political power...how do you all feel regarding the Jesuits...and speaking of popes and their authority...</p> <p>[08:42] Aldo Stern: have the Jesuits been suppressed in so many catholic states because someone fears them?</p> <p>[08:43] OFlaherty Dreadlow: Intellectuals of all types are feared by the state</p> <p>[08:43] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): but not all states.</p> <p>[08:44] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): the Prussian King and Great Catherine in Russia have taken in the Jesuits and given them refuge.</p> <p>[08:44] OFlaherty Dreadlow: Refuge....not inclusion</p> <p>[08:44] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): mostly for the pragmatic reasons I think...good teachers they are.</p> <p>[08:44] OFlaherty Dreadlow: And refuge can turn into entrapment at any time.</p> <p>[08:44] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): I know Der Alte Fritz thinks having them teaching in Prussia strengthens his state.</p> <p>[08:44] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): There is often fear of things that one does not understand and cannot control. Most secret societies, including the Jesuits, fall into that category.</p> <p>[08:45] Aldo Stern: There are some who see a connection between the Jesuits and the freemasons and revolutionary ideas that could potentially overthrow old systems in places like France.</p> <p>[08:46] OFlaherty Dreadlow: Since Rome ruled the western world, we have seen outsiders being taken into the state as "workers" but they usually grow into threats to the state.</p> <p>[08:46] Giovanni Marco Byers (joubert.byers): Greetings...</p> <p>[08:47] Aldo Stern: good day , Your Eminence. How good of you to join us</p> <p>[08:47] Giovanni Marco Byers (joubert.byers): Good Morning, Sir and Madame. Please continue your conversation...</p> <p>[08:47] Aldo Stern: we were discussing the various manifestations of intolerance...and the suppression of certain groups such as the Freemasons and the Jesuits and the limitation of rights for Jews in many places, or Catholics in England.</p> <p>[08:48] Aldo Stern: and I think one theme that we have seemed to agree on, is that at the heart of intolerance is fear.</p> <p>[08:48] Giovanni Marco Byers (joubert.byers): oh well, the age of enlightenment is an interesting topic...</p> <p>[08:48] Giovanni Marco Byers (joubert.byers): about the Jesuits...I have some definite ideas...</p> <p>[08:49] Aldo Stern: yes, Your Eminence, what are your thoughts regarding the Jesuits?</p> <p>[08:49] Giovanni Marco Byers (joubert.byers): In my own opinion I don't think the Jesuits will be suppressed.</p> <p>[08:50] Giovanni Marco Byers (joubert.byers): first of all, if the Jesuits really introduce new ideas I don't see anything that will undermine His Holiness...</p> <p>[08:51] OFlaherty Dreadlow: Not suppressed? Everywhere, Eminence....or just where the Pope holds power?</p> <p>[08:51] Giovanni Marco Byers (joubert.byers): There are some people who may disagree with my opinion, however, and we must obey the decisions of His Holiness...</p> <p>[08:51] Aldo Stern: there is the possibility that His Holiness was pressured, particularly by the Spanish and French courts about the Jesuits, but that his heart is not really in the suppression and that he was secretly pleased that Prussia and Russia have given them refuge.</p> <p>[08:52] Giovanni Marco Byers (joubert.byers): The biggest problem, I think, will be the Spanish monarch.</p> <p>[08:52] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): Why do you suppose that the Spanish and French courts are so fearful of the Jesuits?</p> <p>[08:53] Aldo Stern: Perhaps that brings us to the other side of this ... what moves some people to look upon the benefits of tolerance...and to give more rights to oppressed religious minorities in their countries...</p> <p>[08:53] OFlaherty Dreadlow: And we should not forget the Dutch....who have been most tolerant.</p> <p>[08:54] OFlaherty Dreadlow glances at the cardinal for his reaction to that</p> <p>[08:54] Aldo Stern: we mentioned Jefferson and Rousseau and Voltaire, but I rather liked the quote we included in the readings from John Locke, the English philosopher and doctor who was such an early influence.</p> <p>[08:54] Aldo Stern: and he seems to be saying that tolerance is what a good Christian would do.</p> <p>[08:55] Giovanni Marco Byers (joubert.byers): The monarchs of Spain are afraid of what will happen if their colonies and trade arrangements are subjected to an organization that isn’t Spanish. Jesuits actually stand for the Papal State.</p> <p>[08:56] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): Getting back to the Professore’s point, I think many of the current batch of philosophers make the point that Christian teaching makes it clear that all human knowledge is fallible.</p> <p>[08:56] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): Thus it is difficult to assert that one group's understanding of religion is better than the rest.</p> <p>[08:56] Aldo Stern: which brings us back to a philosophical underpinning for tolerance.</p> <p>[08:57] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): philosophy is one thing, but ultimately when most states act ... when governments act, when rulers act, they are doing what they see as good for their interests.</p> <p>[08:57] OFlaherty Dreadlow: and this is probably a good point for me to beg your pardon.</p> <p>[08:57] OFlaherty Dreadlow: I fear I have another engagement...</p> <p>[08:57] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr):</p> <p>[08:57] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): We have appreciated your company and insights, Lord Dreadlow.</p> <p>[08:59] Aldo Stern: your Lordship, thank you for joining us .</p> <p>[08:59] Aldo Stern: anyway, Baronessa, you were saying?</p> <p>[08:59] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): well...</p> <p>[08:59] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): that Prussia takes in the Jesuits because they are an intellectual resource.</p> <p>[09:00] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): they take in the Jews and treat them relatively fairly because they have resources and skills.</p> <p>[09:00] Aldo Stern: the British have arguably done the same.</p> <p>[09:00] Giovanni Marco Byers (joubert.byers): Russia has also done the same, I know.</p> <p>[09:00] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): And so Prussia has separated religious belief from acting for the good of the state. Very progressive.</p> <p>[09:00] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): and sometimes maybe one nation might take in the French protestants just because they are thinking it will annoy the French.</p> <p>[09:01] Aldo Stern: *laughs*</p> <p>[09:01] Giovanni Marco Byers (joubert.byers): but apart from insuring the survival of the Jesuits, I see accepting the Jesuits into Russia as a more progressive action, especially because of what they can do for education.</p> <p>[09:01] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): ja, Eminence you are right, I think Catharine likes the Jesuits for what they can do to advance learning in her country.</p> <p>[09:02] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): pretty much backward they are, you know.</p> <p>[09:02] Giovanni Marco Byers (joubert.byers): exactly</p> <p>[09:02] Aldo Stern: yes, she desperately wants to create a modern nation.</p> <p>[09:03] Aldo Stern: It is essential for Russia's survival and that means modernizing thought and education as well as industry and the military.</p> <p>[09:04] Aldo Stern: but as we have said before...</p> <p>[09:04] Aldo Stern: it is one thing to be tolerant of a religious group or an organization for pragmatic reasons, but it is another to see the "other" as a person.</p> <p>[09:05] Aldo Stern: to accept him and his beliefs</p> <p>[09:05] Aldo Stern: which is why we included the last bit from the play Nathan the Wise</p> <p>[09:05] Aldo Stern: because what is interesting to me in that is that the Jewish characters, unlike Shylock, are likable and sympathetic.</p> <p>[09:05] Giovanni Marco Byers (joubert.byers): Don’t forget that during most of the 18th Century, the church is a kingdom with a monarch (pope), prince (cardinal), land, and money.</p> <p>[09:06] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): ja. eminence</p> <p>[09:06] Aldo Stern: the individuals in the play ..., Muslim, Jewish and Christian</p> <p>all have good qualities</p> <p>[09:07] Giovanni Marco Byers (joubert.byers): But 1773 is the year that the Papal State dissolved, and most of the cardinals became representative of their kingdom’s monarch ... not the Pope. This is especially true in Spain.</p> <p>[09:08] Giovanni Marco Byers (joubert.byers): The people who are afraid of the ideas of the enlightenment think the new ideas will destroy the christianity of the Church because they could undermine the traditional order and rules of the church. For example, the church had strong views about the nature of the universe. </p> <p>[09:09] Giovanni Marco Byers (joubert.byers): I forget the name of the scientist who was executed by the church because he described a theory of the universe which contradicted the church’s teaching.</p> <p>[09:10] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): Cardinal, do you think that the notion of religious tolerance ought to extend to matters of science?</p> <p>[09:11] Giovanni Marco Byers (joubert.byers): For the most part I agree. On the one hand I think the rule of the church, or I shall say the belief, should be under control by the Pope himself, but the Jesuits are another matter.</p> <p>[09:11] Giovanni Marco Byers (joubert.byers): Because of the Jesuits I think the church will be better able to focus on what we should focus on to do better.</p> <p>[09:11] Aldo Stern: but again, as the Jesuits showed ... or John Locke stated ... learning, science, new ideas do not necessarily undermine our faith.</p> <p>[09:12] Aldo Stern: we can be good Christians, ..or Jews ... or Zoroastrians I suppose, and still believe in the importance of new ideas and reason.</p> <p>[09:12] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): But learning and science can undermine the ideas that have been promulgated for centuries by the head of a religious group like the Pope. That can seem very threatening.</p> <p>[09:13] Giovanni Marco Byers (joubert.byers): I certainly accept it will be threatening, but the oversight of the papal state is needed because the inventor of a new idea might overreach and cause further rebellion.</p> <p>[09:14] Aldo Stern: change is always threatening from a certain perspective.</p> <p>[09:14] Giovanni Marco Byers (joubert.byers): But the Jesuits seem to be changing the thinking of the church especially on education and new scientific invention which is needed in the world today.</p> <p>[09:15] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): I think we can agree that it is more difficult for a state to be tolerant of dissenting views, whether religious or scientific, when the head of the state is a religious leader.</p> <p>[09:16] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): But I would like to get back to the ideas of Locke about how ordinary people view other religious groups.</p> <p>[09:16] Aldo Stern: which is why as you said Sere, it was so interesting that Frederick of Prussia has separated the civil and religious authority...</p> <p>[09:16] Aldo Stern: and his primary concern is what is good for the state.</p> <p>[09:17] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): That separation makes it easier for ordinary people to be tolerant of other religions, I think. It seems almost a necessary precursor.</p> <p>[09:19] Giovanni Marco Byers (joubert.byers): I enjoyed the conversation today but must be going.</p> <p>[09:19] Aldo Stern: we are very pleased that you could join us, Your Eminence</p> <p>[09:20] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): Thank you for coming Your Eminence. We have appreciated your ideas</p> <p>[09:20] Giovanni Marco Byers (joubert.byers): I am glad that the people have thought about the importance of enlightenment ... I am not one of those ultra-conservatives.</p> <p>[09:20] Giovanni Marco Byers (joubert.byers): have a good day...</p> <p>[09:20] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): a pleasure it was to meet you.</p> <p>[09:20] Giovanni Marco Byers (joubert.byers): pleasure to meet you all too.</p> <p>[09:20] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): Good day.</p> <p>[09:20] Aldo Stern: arrividerci</p> <p>[09:22] Aldo Stern: well shall we finish with Locke?</p> <p>[09:22] Aldo Stern: the bit I was really impressed by was this:</p> <p>[09:22] Aldo Stern: "I esteem that toleration to be the chief characteristic mark of the true Church."</p> <p>[09:23] Aldo Stern: I think Locke sees tolerance as a Christian duty.</p> <p>[09:23] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): A very revolutionary idea, and one that has resonated among the Enlightenment thinkers.</p> <p>[09:24] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): well I think especially those who have a broader, less dogmatic view of their Christianity.</p> <p>[09:25] Aldo Stern: like a Jefferson?</p> <p>[09:26] Aldo Stern: unless I am very much mistaken we are all getting mentally tired.</p> <p>[09:27] Aldo Stern: but may I sum up a few pints and see if we agree...</p> <p>[09:27] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): I think perhaps you are right, Professore.</p> <p>[09:27] Aldo Stern: that the root cause of intolerance and persecution may be ideological...or based in issues of faith...</p> <p>[09:27] Aldo Stern: but he real engine of intolerance is fear.</p> <p>[09:28] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): I would agree with that</p> <p>[09:28] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): An excellent summary.</p> <p>[09:28] Aldo Stern: and that the growth of tolerance is to a great extent based in pragmatism.</p> <p>[09:29] Aldo Stern: but what will give it greater resonance is the philosophical ideals...from a broader view of what it means to be a person of faith.</p> <p>[09:29] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): hmmm</p> <p>[09:29] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): maybe</p> <p>[09:30] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): Certainly if tolerance can be made to seem like a core tenet of faith it is easier for most people to practice it.</p> <p>[09:30] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): but what makes tolerance work in my old homeland in Franconia...where both Catholics and Lutherans coexist happily...</p> <p>[09:30] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): is simple humanity...you live close with people and you see them as people, not a papist or a Lutheran.</p> <p>[09:31] Aldo Stern: or a Jew</p> <p>[09:31] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): ja</p> <p>[09:31] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): Living side by side reduces the amount of the "unknown" -- there is simply less to fear about people you know.</p> <p>[09:31] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): my husband he was a Lutheran but not such a good one.</p> <p>[09:32] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): maybe that helped?</p> <p>[09:32] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): If tolerance is a Christian virtue, your late husband might have been the very best kind of Lutheran.</p> <p>[09:32] Aldo Stern: well on that note, I think we can bring this to a close</p> <p>[09:32] Aldo Stern: I found the discussion very interesting</p> <p>[09:33] Sere Timeless (serenek.timeless): Thank you for leading us Professore.</p>Diohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14266713613721430111noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2265659668411443893.post-34864925741615207092011-07-16T11:39:00.000-07:002011-07-16T13:29:28.251-07:00More than tea and fashion--the first "Coffee House Salon"<div style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">~~~</span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">One of the criticisms of the 18th century rp in SL is that the intellectual discourse is mostly fashion chit chat and gossip over tea. That is of course about as unfair and incorrect as saying that SL is nothing more than griefers and cyber-sex. </span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><br /></span><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgDkMCdLDHDaDhavTpY0M_cRpZBmeVGijQYDuMbGnApZpgXAk13P1cr3-ELLq1arEoFu-043J_FaNRv_2EHJwvA7m_GExuqzwUIvxsx9HVzdmKBnNuXHvetHcYidBy8C0Mc_dJ09gGfV7cM/s1600/shop+outsdie+Snapshot_002.png" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 400px; height: 225px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgDkMCdLDHDaDhavTpY0M_cRpZBmeVGijQYDuMbGnApZpgXAk13P1cr3-ELLq1arEoFu-043J_FaNRv_2EHJwvA7m_GExuqzwUIvxsx9HVzdmKBnNuXHvetHcYidBy8C0Mc_dJ09gGfV7cM/s400/shop+outsdie+Snapshot_002.png" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5630024876333386130" /></a><div style="text-align: center;"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#003300;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:x-small;">The entrance to the coffee house near the harbor</span></span></i></div><div style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><br /></span></div><div style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><br /></span></div></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">As an example I would like to present to you an edited transcript of this morning's first in a series of discussions at our informal "Coffee House Salon" near the harbor in Melioria.</span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><br /></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">The following is presented with the permission of those who participated:</span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><br /></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><br /></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:26] Aldo Stern: at any rate, , the topic, is servants and masters...and how those tradtional relationships are perhaps changing</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:27] Aldo Stern: recently, in another venue for discussion...</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:27] Aldo Stern: a fellow asked the question of how people treated their servants...</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:27] Aldo Stern: which struck me as interesting, the fact that he was even asking the question</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:28] Aldo Stern: in the past....not so long ago, I do not think anyone would have bothered asking such a question</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:28] Belladonna OHare: indeed</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:29] Aldo Stern: have any of you read Castiglione's “Book of the Courtier?”</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:29] Aria Vyper: no :-(</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:29] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): ja, but it was many years ago</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:30] Belladonna OHare: no</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:30] Belladonna OHare: I have not</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:30] Aldo Stern: Frau Kuhr, would you describe it for the others?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:30] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): ah, it is the grandfather, so to speak , of the conduct books</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:30] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): telling people how they should behave</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:30] Belladonna OHare: ahhh indeed</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:31] Belladonna OHare: I must get it</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:31] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): back in the 1500s I think it was written</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:31] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): telling how the good nobleman should act, and dress and all that</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:31] Aria Vyper: wow - long time ago</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:31] Aldo Stern: exactly</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:31] Aldo Stern: all the books of manners today are arguably descended from Castiglione's</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:32] Aldo Stern: do you recall Frau Kuhr, did he say anything about how a proper nobleman should treat his servants?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:32] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): ah</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:32] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): hmmm</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:32] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): no</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:32] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): I think it said the good courtier is gracious to everyone</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:33] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): but...like I said... it was a long time ago I read it</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:33] Aldo Stern: that's my point...actually..in his day, social rank and position was set...everyone had a place</span></span></p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:34] Aldo Stern: and yes the good courtier was gracious and proper with everyone...but all Castiglione said about servants was that they should be as polite and well mannered as their lord</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:34] Aldo Stern: well dressed, clean</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:34] Aldo Stern: he put a lot of emphasis on being clean for some reason</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:34] Aldo Stern: but back then...I suspect how people were to treat servants was understood</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:34] Aldo Stern: no one would have asked the question, “how do you treat your servant?”</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:34] Aldo Stern: ...but now they do...so times, are changing, yes?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica; min-height: 14.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"></span><br /></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:34] Belladonna OHare: now those lines are being blurred</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:35] Aldo Stern: ah Donna Bella has already answered question</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:35] Aldo Stern: yes lines are blurred</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:36] Aldo Stern: I know of a novelist and philosopher in germany...both of his parents were domestic servants</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:37] Aldo Stern: two hundred years ago, could you have imagined such a thing happening?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:38] Aldo Stern: in your observations, ladies, may I ask, what do you observe? how do your friends and acquaintances treat their servants?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:39] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): you mean when they aren't slapping them?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:40] Aldo Stern: oh come now, they aren't all slapping them, all the time</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:41] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): well, no not all the time...sometimes they are asleep</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:41] Belladonna OHare: I observed an incident recently of one noble lady</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:41] Belladonna OHare: abusing a small boy, the servant of the king's mistress</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:42] Belladonna OHare: many ladies of the court where appalled at the treatment and comforted the child</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:42] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): I am glad to hear that Fraulein Bella...but I wonder if the abuse had been of an adult, would any sympathy have been offered?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:42] Vanessa Montpenier: well I think the majority of people still thinks a servant is born with his "title" and dies with his "title" but on the other hand, I believe this attitude for the servants differs in every culture</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:42] Aldo Stern: ah that is an interesting point Donna Vanessa...it is different in different situations and cultures?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:43] Vanessa Montpenier: indeed</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:43] Belladonna OHare: I believe basic humanity is the same from culture to culture</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:43] Belladonna OHare: some are kind...some are not</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:44] Aldo Stern: ah very true...</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:44] Belladonna OHare: I have observed that the woman who was cruel to the servant is cruel in all her dealings</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:45] Aldo Stern: not just to servants, but to her equals as well?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:45] Belladonna OHare: Yes, Professore</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:45] Vanessa Montpenier: well in the oriental world, they collect small boys from the vilages and take them to the palace and some of them are chosen to have the education with the future "sultan" and the rest are chosen to be servants</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:46] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): so that is just by chance? that you become a vizier or a servant?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:46] Belladonna OHare: The luck of the dice determines your future?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:47] Belladonna OHare: How interesting those Easterners are.</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:47] Vanessa Montpenier: you quite misunderstand madame.. when they collect the kids from the villages, they are taken to a place like a dormitory</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:47] Aldo Stern: I suspect there is more to it--that they see which child may be best suited for a certain future...</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:47] Aldo Stern: so it is a bit more of a judgement</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:47] Vanessa Montpenier: yes, they make..mm.. how to say... exams... physical and intellectual</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:47] Belladonna OHare: I see</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:47] Aldo Stern: but perhaps at the heart of it, they look on them all as servants</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:48] Aldo Stern: it is simply that the educated vizier is still a servant of his sultan in matters of diplomacy and administration...</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:48] Belladonna OHare: I quite agree, as there is no choice for the children in the matter</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:48] Aldo Stern: while his less educable brother serves as the cup bearer</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:48] Belladonna OHare: so in the end they are all servants</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:49] Vanessa Montpenier: but the point is, the sultan always keeps his servants close to him and he trusts them more than anyone in the palace</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:50] Vanessa Montpenier: what I am tryin to say is, in the oriental world, servants are collected and raised from the early ages</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:50] Belladonna OHare: Indeed, there has always been a vast difference between East and West!</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:50] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): ahhhh... I think Donna Vanessa's point about different cultures is very important...Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): not just different places, but different circumstances</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:50] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): for example...in the great palace of a king, the hundreds of servants will have a different relationship than in a country house, where the family has one steward, and a cook</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:50] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): in those country houses...well, like mine...the servants were more...like part of the family</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:51] Belladonna OHare: Indeed Frau Kuhr</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:51] Aldo Stern: and I assume you as the lady of the household had obligations to those servants, as they were, more or less, "part of the family"?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:52] Belladonna OHare: In the country the servants are not separated physically by vast distances, such as in a large chateau</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:52] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): yes of course</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:52] Vanessa Montpenier: but unfortunately no matter how they are different from us, the gold coins talk nowadays *smiles*</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:52] Aldo Stern: how do you mean Donna Vanessa?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:53] Vanessa Montpenier: I mean financially Don Aldo</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:54] Aldo Stern: can you elaborate on what you mean?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:55] Vanessa Montpenier: Europe has a deep history and modern culture, although how the majority of people still treat their servants, is in the old ways...but what I am trying to say is that East has the chance to adopt this civilization but their culture, I think, will not let them do so...</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:56] Aldo Stern: hmmm</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:56] Aldo Stern: so our relationships between different people of different stations are set by traditions..,.even religion, perhaps?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:57] Vanessa Montpenier: well.. what I personally believe, no matter how people try to enlighten themselves, their traditions can haunt them..</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:58] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): ahhhh</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:59] Aldo Stern: which is why, even in modern Europe of 1780, there is so much tension and inconsistency as our relationships change?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:59] Belladonna OHare: those traditions may be in the back of our mind Madame, but I believe the truly the enlightened can learn and change and better themselves.</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[08:59] Belladonna OHare: that is my hope for our future</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:00] Vanessa Montpenier: despite your correct remarks madame, enlightenment needs certain amount of time and philosophy</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:00] Aldo Stern: that is a very enlightened viewpoint Donna Bella, it brings to mind the excerpt from Daniel Defoe's Family Instructor that I included on the notecard</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:00] Aldo Stern: did any of you have a chance to read it?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:02] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): ja...once I got used to his style, I thought it was interesting...Herr Defoe, he wrote about this very religious servant, who "taught" things to not just the children of the family she worked for, but to her Mistress as well!</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:03] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): it was the ideal, not so much the reality, I think</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:03] Aldo Stern: yes...probably</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:04] Aldo Stern: it is in some ways a conduct book</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:04] Aldo Stern: like the Book of the Courtier, but it is so very very different...written as a fictional story, almost like a play</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:05] Aldo Stern: it is also important to note that it is about families that are not of high rank, but in the middle somewhere</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:05] Aldo Stern: and at the end, the sea captain, who is wealthy but not of noble rank, marries the good servant girl</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:06] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): ja, that would not happen with the servant of a noble...they might have the carnal relations, but never the getting married</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:06] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): where I come from, in places like Prussia, if a noble marries outside of their class, they lose the noble status, by law</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:07] Aldo Stern: hmmm good point</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:07] Aldo Stern: but still..even if it is not a realistic story...more like a fable....it is encouraging something: that servants should do more than just dress the children and teach them nursery rhymes...</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:09] Aldo Stern: but teach them their prayers...be a good christian influence on those you work for</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:09] Aldo Stern: this I think is a pretty remarkable idea...that a servant could have a good influence on their "betters"</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:10] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): this Defoe fellow, he is the writer of the Robinson Crusoe story, ja?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:10] Aldo Stern: yes, indeed he is</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:11] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): I think he writes about how he thinks things should be like, more than how they are</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:12] Aldo Stern: yes...he actually got placed in the pillory for three days for his writing</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:12] Aldo Stern: but that was early in this century</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:12] Aldo Stern: things are different now...</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:12] Aldo Stern: I hope...</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:13] Aldo Stern: for example...Signore Pierre Beaumarchais, who has written the humorous play the “Barber of Seville”....</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:14] Aldo Stern: the French King and his government, would not let them show the play at first...but at least he did not have Beaumarchais thrown in prison or put in the pillory</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:14] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): and now they have even let him put onthe play, yes?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:15] Aldo Stern: yes..did any of you have the chance to see the play, or perhaps read the little excerpts inthe notecard?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:16] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): very funny I thought they were</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:18] Vanessa Montpenier: I am afraid I have not had the chance yet</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:18] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): surprised I am that he didn't get in more trouble for that...making fun of nobles</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:19] Aldo Stern: I particularly found these lines from the play to be striking:</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica; min-height: 14.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"></span><br /></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">Count</span></b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">. </span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">I do not believe thou tellest all the Truth; I remember thou had’st but a dubious Character when in my Service.</span></i></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica; min-height: 14.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"></span></span><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><br /></span></b></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: normal;"><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">Figaro.</span></b></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"> </span></i></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">My God! my Lord, you rich Folks always would have us poor ones be entirely without faults.</span></i></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica; min-height: 14.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"></span></span><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><br /></span></b></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">Count. </span></b></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">Idle, debauch’d,</span></i></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica; min-height: 14.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"></span><br /></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">Figaro.</span></b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"> </span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">According to the Perfections you fine Gentleman expect in your Servants, does your Excellency think many of your Acquaintance worthy the Office of Valet-de-Chambre?</span></i></span></p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><br /></span></i></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:20] Aldo Stern: Figaro is saying that if the Count held his noble friends to the same standards he tried to apply to his servants, none of his noble friends would qualify as even a valet</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:21] Vanessa Montpenier: *laughs</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:21] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): well , it is the truth, ja?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:21] Belladonna OHare laughs</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:21] Belladonna OHare: I would agree to that, based on some of the conduct I have seen at the various courts I have visited</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:22] Aldo Stern: there is also, a lively give and take between the Count, and Figaro, who was his servant</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:22] Aldo Stern: there is no deference given to the Count by Figaro...in fact, if you read the whole play, you realize he helps the Count partly out of fear....</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:23] Aldo Stern: and partly out of self interest</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:23] Aldo Stern: to gain an advantage</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:23] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): it was very funny...someone should make an opera out of that play</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:24] Aldo Stern: I understand Beaumarchais originally wanted it done as a comedic opera...but it just didn't seem to work out. *shrugs* oh well, maybe someday</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:26] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): is it true the queen of France wanted it shown on stage, but her husband was the one that felt it was too hard on the nobles?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:27] Aldo Stern: I have heard something to that effect, but I do not know if it is true or not</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:27] Aldo Stern: we are almost at our allotted time to end</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:28] Aldo Stern: and I think we have well established that yes, regarding the relationships between masters and servants...in fact between all classes...as Donna Bella said, the lines are becoming blurred...</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:28] Aldo Stern: we all agree that it is changing yes?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:29] Belladonna OHare: indeed they are</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:29] Aria Vyper: yes</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:29] Vanessa Montpenier: I completely agree</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:29] Belladonna OHare: and I for one am thrilled, I feel it heralds a new age </span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:29] Aldo Stern: haha, you Donna Bella, unless I am very mistaken...are a nonconformist at heart?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:30] Belladonna OHare: In my heart and soul Don Aldo</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:30] Aldo Stern: but then the last question is why....</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:31] Aldo Stern: Donna Vanessa mentioned gold...are economics changing our relationships?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:31] Vanessa Montpenier: Economics is changing the world itself Don Aldo, not only the relationships *smiles*</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:31] Belladonna OHare: I believe it was the invention of the printing press that started the change--but it has taken time</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:32] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): ah that is an interesting idea</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:32] Belladonna OHare: but people have begun to receive knowledge and information</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:32] Belladonna OHare: which is the key in my opinion to change</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:32] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): maybe the nobles who don't want things to change they should try to keep the poor and the servants ignorant and illiterate</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:33] Belladonna OHare: yes but now even servants can read and have access to large numbers of books...some even own a book, at least a bible</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:33] Aldo Stern: yes, Donna Bella...I am sorry none of the apprentices are here today...they are remarkable boys. They not only read and write but they are well read and fluent in different languages</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:34] Belladonna OHare: yes</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:34] Aldo Stern: Rico the printer’s apprentice can read and write in Hebrew</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:34] Aldo Stern: and the boy Fiorino can read and write in ancient greek and latin</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:34] Belladonna OHare: and I believe it all started with the printing printing press, I believe it will be the greatest invention of the last 1000 yrs</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:34] Aldo Stern: they will not be content to gondoliers and printers helpers</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:35] Aldo Stern: they will want to be more</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:35] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): well that is the other thing that makes the change, ja? That the people in lower stations like servants, they have more choices now</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:35] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): they can go into a city and work in a factory or workshop of some kind</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:36] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): the men they can become soldiers...</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:36] Belladonna OHare: the women open shops</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:36] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): you mentioned the man whose parents were servants and he is now a novelist...</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:36] Belladonna OHare: my wig makers and dressmakers are talented women</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:37] Belladonna OHare: I am sorrry</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:37] Belladonna OHare: I must leave</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:37] Belladonna OHare: thank you for a wonderful time</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:37] Aldo Stern: thank you for coming Donna Bella, you added a great deal to the discussion</span></span></p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:37] Belladonna OHare curtsies respectfully</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:38] Aldo Stern: we thank you for your insights and contribution</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:38] Aldo Stern: but still people need the servants for their households, whether they are large or small...so here is the last thing I will share...also I put this in the notecard</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:38] Aldo Stern: but let me repeat it</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:39] Aldo Stern: this is from Signora Hester Chapones book which is a guide to how a young lady should behave and run her household:</span></span></p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><br /></span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">“Those who continually change their servants, and complain of perpetual ill-usage, have good reason to believe that the fault is in themselves, and that they do not know how to govern. Few indeed possess the skill to unite authority with kindness, or are capable of that steady and uniformly reasonable conduct, which alone can maintain true dignity, and command a willing and attentive obedience.“</span></i></span></p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><br /></span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:39] Aldo Stern: you notice how she mentions "kindness"?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:40] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): ja,</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:40] Vanessa Montpenier: well. all starts with kindness Don Aldo...*smiles*</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:41] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): you know I bet you the reason why she thinks the mistress has to mix the kindness and authority is because with the choices servants have, they are going to walk out if you just slap them around anymore</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:41] Aria Vyper: everyone - I must go meet a friend, I hope you don't mind me taking my leave</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:41] Aldo Stern: or course Donna Ariella, thank you for joining us</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:41] Aldo Stern: well I think you are both right...</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:42] Aldo Stern: the Baronessa from a very practical standpoint</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:42] Aldo Stern: and Donna Vanessa, from the idealistic, moral standpoint</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:42] Vanessa Montpenier: on the other hand Don Aldo,</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:43] Vanessa Montpenier: being idealistic does not always work nowadays in these circumstances</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:44] Aldo Stern: oh? how so?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:45] Vanessa Montpenier: well..</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:46] Vanessa Montpenier: when a country is ruled by a king who says " l'etat , c'est moi", it can be a mistake to be so idealistic</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:47] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): but even if he is the state, cannot the state be based on the ideals of some kind?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:48] Aldo Stern: do ideals make him somehow weaker?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:49] Vanessa Montpenier: everything that grows against him makes him weaker</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:51] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): hmmm I am thinking i would argue that it is not the ideals that make for weakness...it is the resistance to change</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:51] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): we all agree things are changing, ja?</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:51] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): maybe it becomes like the avalanche rolling down the hillside, you stand in front of it and say "stop" and it will just be rolling right over you</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:52] Vanessa Montpenier: good remark</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:52] Aldo Stern: but if you get behind it...</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:52] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): or maybe you climb up a tree *pictures Louis of France clinging at the top of a pine tree*</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:53] Aldo Stern: well, this has been an enjoyable discussion</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:54] Aldo Stern: I hope you found it interesting, Donna Vanessa</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:55] Vanessa Montpenier: it was a pleasant discussion for my side</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:55] Vanessa Montpenier: thank you for the invite</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">[09:56] Diogeneia (diogenes.kuhr): very good it was, Herr Professor, danke for leading it</span></span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><br /></p><p style="text-align: center;margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; "><span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">~~~</span></span></p></div>Diohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14266713613721430111noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2265659668411443893.post-9228717545488398472011-06-30T12:08:00.000-07:002011-06-30T13:45:37.159-07:00Life wasn't sufficiently complex....<div style="text-align: center;"><br /></div>...so I got involved with owning and running a sim.<br /><br /><br /><div style="text-align: center;"><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEijFAs0WqZD2tQ6vc031xAEWNapIsfW0DBhAQ3v8LetFhneGHbOqcdSZXsVjaB3RZ1jFanzaLPBSt4OwBgYM_EoIWhI1y6b2hlw8CteZufHpMI5aO2DNAyqexP1xH3cJX_s0alWy3IOp19W/s1600/portraitfreifrauSnapshot_001.png"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 400px; height: 215px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEijFAs0WqZD2tQ6vc031xAEWNapIsfW0DBhAQ3v8LetFhneGHbOqcdSZXsVjaB3RZ1jFanzaLPBSt4OwBgYM_EoIWhI1y6b2hlw8CteZufHpMI5aO2DNAyqexP1xH3cJX_s0alWy3IOp19W/s400/portraitfreifrauSnapshot_001.png" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5624111156091792514" border="0" /></a><span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">A portrait entitled "Idiot with Sunset" </span><br /></div><br /><br />Once again, it's been a while since I've talked to y'all. This time there is a good reason (in addition to the usual reason why I haven't been writing for a spell: i.e., my congenital fecklessness).<br /><br />A little while back we had an announcement from CapabilityTodd Elswitt, builder and co-owner of the Melioria sim, that he and his partner, Blue Revolution, would be closing the sim down due to rl demands on their time and resources imposed by them buying a house.<br /><br />Being the eternal goddamn cheerful optimist that I am, I asked Cap and Blue if they would be willing to sell the sim to someone who would do their best to keep it going. To my surprise they said "yes," and I then rounded up some other folks to put together the means to take it over and run it.<br /><br />For those of you who haven't been there (or missed my previous post about it) Il Principato di Melioria is a spectacularly lovely build that represents a fictional (but more or less historically plausible) island principality off the southwest coast of Italy, set in the year 1780.<br /><br /><br /><div style="text-align: center;"><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhXrYek5-g-thTLcTPr736SXfAe23NnNt-XEVLzGhpArBvZjVlsu6DrSOEDS7cXHDkxMFsv3fpwf8ADSUg9RPh5ksX6xzl_zXyHAG1RZemiQ84qbyjYIsKgmCYrPrmuAhWjzq5eH-GofSZ_/s1600/MelioriaSnapshot_003-2.png"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 351px; height: 373px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhXrYek5-g-thTLcTPr736SXfAe23NnNt-XEVLzGhpArBvZjVlsu6DrSOEDS7cXHDkxMFsv3fpwf8ADSUg9RPh5ksX6xzl_zXyHAG1RZemiQ84qbyjYIsKgmCYrPrmuAhWjzq5eH-GofSZ_/s400/MelioriaSnapshot_003-2.png" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5624095576353928434" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0); font-style: italic;">The charming jumble that is the village by the harbor on Melioria</span><br /><br /><br /></div>The sim is open for roleplay, but also for general visitors and educational activities. For example, there are already lessons in ancient Greek and Latin being conducted in the Villa on Sunday afternoons. The build itself is a lesson in art and architectural history: the villa for example, was described by Cap as "<span style="font-style: italic;">a virtual interpretation of a World Heritage site in Vicenza, Italy. Built in 1565, this elegant country house was inspired by the Pantheon in Rome and has since influenced the design of thousands of subsequent structures.</span>"<br /><br />Eventually, we will be working on ways to convey that kind of didactic information through handouts and some form of architectural "treasure hunt" game. Melioria isn't just something that's pretty to look at or fun to play in (though it is both of those things). There also is substantial potential for this build to serve as an site for various experiments in virtual learning, and to function as a venue for diverse educational meetings and classes.<br /><br />With those considerations in mind, a couple other folks came forward to help save the sim, do some reorganizing, and then run it. Besides me, the new owners include Sere Timeless (who some of you may know from her involvement with Renaissance Island), and Aldo Stern (former proprietor of the Falling Anvil Pub in Tamrannoch, Caledon0. Our sim manager is Aria Vyper, who, as La Donna Ariella, has been a long-time resident and administrator of Melioria. We all have been working very hard (along with Cap and Blue, who have been happily and doggedly assisting) addressing the many details of the transition and the reorganization. But in many ways, the key person in this process has been Aldo--without him, saving the sim simply would not have been possible. And he has thrown himself into this job wholeheartedly, even facing the utterly discouraging task of finding appropriate 18th century mens' clothing, and giving up his avatar's Maori-style face tattoos (which he has had since 2005), in order to fit the theme of the island.<br /><br /><div style="text-align: center;"><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgVLJHLl3qO1KG_oeEVVtiXTvu5xOuYjgxaE7xyPbnSeYlkcMxaKDfoTWkqS9XHDIIoKCOVFfE_IMndCXYQcf0UwEKOFubcEtz9A8JLhI9u6XF1yMn3ovbI2xtWUwrb2Y6qEaCazcu9Iq7E/s1600/Snapshot_001-1-1.png"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 400px; height: 351px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgVLJHLl3qO1KG_oeEVVtiXTvu5xOuYjgxaE7xyPbnSeYlkcMxaKDfoTWkqS9XHDIIoKCOVFfE_IMndCXYQcf0UwEKOFubcEtz9A8JLhI9u6XF1yMn3ovbI2xtWUwrb2Y6qEaCazcu9Iq7E/s400/Snapshot_001-1-1.png" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5624101771369733906" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0);"><span style="font-style: italic;">Aldo Stern 2.0<br /><br /><br /></span></span><div style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0);"><span style="font-style: italic;"></span></span>So, you may ask, what's involved in reorganizing a sim like this?<br /><br />Well kids, more than you would think. First of all, we had to try to think about how to make the sim work financially with expanded income sources. This meant building a sky platform for an entry area with additional retail spaces, as well as an rp info area and rental office. Aldo created the initial version of the platform, and Sere is even as we speak applying her creative talents in improving the look and functionality of the landing point and adjoining market space. Other new residential rental spaces were added in to the build itself. Then we had to reduce prim usage, in order to accommodate the potential new renters and vendors.<br /><br />Furthermore, we wanted to create new elements that would facilitate and enhance roleplay. This has involved the placement of "archeological" relics in various places (including an "excavation" on the less built-up side of the island), and the introduction of new businesses in village such as a metal-smith's shop and an 18th century coffee house.<br /><br /><br /><div style="text-align: left;"><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEguJdq67UYXhI_sBFOKj1503Od4yQWZNwxbEIqevtqZOAlzUjF-nddzrINbCM7_QsAlA_cwKVTDUTeekSscElzcaXtmrK2gCF_87-MwyFU6ZZj-cFaveSko9u6J3Bkg8ispDL8e5dg1ArVk/s1600/coffeehouse_001.png"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 400px; height: 215px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEguJdq67UYXhI_sBFOKj1503Od4yQWZNwxbEIqevtqZOAlzUjF-nddzrINbCM7_QsAlA_cwKVTDUTeekSscElzcaXtmrK2gCF_87-MwyFU6ZZj-cFaveSko9u6J3Bkg8ispDL8e5dg1ArVk/s400/coffeehouse_001.png" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5624110916229350290" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0); font-style: italic;">Aldo in the coffee house. The coffee booth is based on 18th century London-style coffee house furnishings, but the rest of it is very Italian, including the fact that respectable women are allowed in.</span><br /></div><br /><br />This coffee house will be of particular importance as a venue where people can gather and talk and interact, similar to the "Keller" in 1920s Berlin. In a successful rp environment, it helps to have a "common space" where the players can count on going to encounter each other and have some plausible reason to interact. RP, after all, is a social activity. And yes, before anyone whines about it, we know coffee houses in 18th century London and Paris did not allow women to enter. In Italy, however, many did, so that is the model our Melioria Coffee house is based on. Everyone--including respectable, intellectually-inclined ladies--are welcome to socialize and join the discussions.<br /><br />The trick in all this reorganization effort was to accomplish our collective goals without doing massive violence to Cap's build. Yes, we had to cut the number of prims being used and create new income-generating and rp-related spaces, but we tried very hard to do so without destroying the overall look and feel of the sim.<br /><br />With Cap's ongoing help, I think we've managed to do that.<br /><br />So I hope you'll come and visit, maybe even think about renting a space or holding an educational event or meeting here. Or if you're a vendor, hey, let's talk.<br /><br />Next time, I'll fill you in on the rp storylines that seem to be developing.<br /><div style="text-align: center;">~~~<br /></div><br /><span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0);"><span style="font-style: italic;"></span></span></div></div>Diohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14266713613721430111noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2265659668411443893.post-1249360207081726162011-05-21T11:48:00.001-07:002011-05-21T16:13:29.869-07:00So why does this part of history keep repeating?<div style="text-align: center;">~~~</div><b><i> "Live not one's life as though one had a thousand years, but live each day as the last."</i></b><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>- Marcus Aurelius</i><br /><p></p><br /></div><div>Well kids, I may be <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_0">jumpin</span>' the gun here, but I'm <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_1">putting</span> my money on the idea that this sorry plane of existence we call home ain't <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_2">getting </span>repossessed by the Divine just yet.<div><br /></div><div>A real big reason I am looking at it this way is because there's a number of passages in the Good Book that explain the state things more or less along the lines of Matthew 24:36, which in the good <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_3">ol</span>' American King Jamie's version reads: </div><div><br /></div><div><b><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">"But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."</span></i></b></div><div><br /></div><div>You know, the whole "like a thief in the night thing." </div><div><br /></div><div>Yet throughout the last couple <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_4">millennia</span>, various people--some of them sincerely faithful, and others who were <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_5">nothing</span> more than manipulative weasel-squeezers out for personal gain--have come along saying stuff like "He's a-<span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_6">comin</span>' next Tuesday, right before breakfast, so get your cuppa coffee early that day" </div><div><br /></div><div>It actually goes back to the first days of <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_7">christianity--</span>or what its followers back then called "The Way"--during which time a whole <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_8">buncha</span> folks were inclined to stop whatever productive things they might have been <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_9">doing</span> and just sort of sat around <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_10">waiting</span> for the promised return of the Son of God. The early fathers and mothers of the church (the institution didn't turn into a super-<span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_11">patriarchy</span> until later) kind of had their hands full with this situation. Much of the apostolic writing on the subject of "when He would return for us" pretty much boiled down to <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_12">saying</span> "Hey folks, it's nice that y'all are <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_13">lookin</span>' forward to the Big Guy <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_14">showin</span>' up again, but they ain't no guarantees as to the when & wherefore o' that, so in the meantime, dishes still gotta be washed an' someone had best go ahead an' change the diaper on that <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_15">young'un</span> over there."</div><div><br /></div><div>But history has a way of <span class="blsp-spelling-corrected" id="SPELLING_ERROR_16">doing</span> it's thing over and over and over and over...</div><div><br /><br /><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEidQeXwcVjp48kSF60IGCI894h2O-kFxXzuJgc_xjbH39PcxJb2TcJkC1XrkPkg1j1ho8OBad-nBq283aGwl1drE2k1NCA_9YTwlYAn8sethhdsk0AZoF2DHgu1AaEoQ4bMSu3vpia9rJvv/s1600/millerite+cartoon.jpg" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 400px; height: 241px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEidQeXwcVjp48kSF60IGCI894h2O-kFxXzuJgc_xjbH39PcxJb2TcJkC1XrkPkg1j1ho8OBad-nBq283aGwl1drE2k1NCA_9YTwlYAn8sethhdsk0AZoF2DHgu1AaEoQ4bMSu3vpia9rJvv/s400/millerite+cartoon.jpg" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5609266608952042818" /></a><div style="text-align: center;"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#003300;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">A caricature of Millerites, from Puck magazin</span></span></i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">e</span></div><div style="text-align: center;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: center;"></div><div>A good example of this in recent American history was the case of the "<span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_17">Millerites</span>," the followers of a gent named William <a href="http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/entry.php?rec=274&nm=William-Miller">Miller</a>, who was predicting "the end" back in the 1830's and 40's:</div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><br /></span></div><div><b><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">"Miller, a farmer from New York, claimed to have discovered when Jesus Christ would return to Earth as stated in the Bible. Miller reached this belief in the 1820s but did not begin to share it with other people until the 1830s. By the early 1840s, approximately one million people had attended camp meetings and heard Miller's message.....Miller predicted that Christ's second coming would occur in April 1843 and that all worthy people would ascend to heaven on October 23, 1844.</span></i></b></div><div><b><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><br /></span></i></b></div><div><b><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">Thousands of people across the United States, including in Ohio, eagerly anticipated the event. Numerous people forsook their original religious beliefs and adopted </span></i><span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_18"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">Millerism</span></i></span><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">, hoping that Jesus Christ would find no fault with them upon his return to Earth. </span></i><span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_19"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">Millerites</span></i></span><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"> consisted of all types of people. Many working-class people hoped that Christ's arrival would end their laborious lives. </span></i></b></div><div><b><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><br /></span></i></b></div><div><b><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">Other Americans believed that many people were sinners and that only the true believers, the </span></i><span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_20"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">Millerites</span></i></span><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">, would escape punishment. God wanted the deserving to assist their unworthy neighbors through various reform movements, such as the temperance and abolition movements. Other people believed that citizens of the United States were God's chosen people and that Jesus Christ's arrival would prove this point. </span></i></b></div><div><b><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><br /></span></i></b></div><div><b><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">As October 23, 1844 approached, many </span></i><span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_21"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">Millerites</span></i></span><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"> sold all of their earthly possessions. Many sources claim that the </span></i><span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_22"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">Millerites</span></i></span><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">, dressed in white robes, climbed the highest mountains and hills that they could find so that they would be closer to heaven. Unfortunately for these people, they did not ascend to heaven on the appointed day. Miller claimed to have made an error and quickly issued a new date for the second coming, approximately six months later. Once again, this day came and went. In most cases, Miller's followers abandoned him. In 1845, some of Miller's followers joined the Adventist Church, which Miller helped establish. Adventists believe in the second coming of Christ, but they do not specify a day when this event will occur."</span></i></b></div><div><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><br /></span></b></div><div><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: normal; "><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">- please note, the above was borrowed shamelessly from www.ohiohistorycentral.org, which has a lot of really interesting shit</span></i></span></i></div><div><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><br /></span></i></div><div><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: normal; "><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"></span></i></span><br /><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjwgUPAF2HXsWnOK57deQAWtYNag0rCb7GQFHipVT6V3BDetvvdGEvhibKdmfC0wsrjBlkw5OrxTUyuKk0_q-dWw-4_HXgijdln_XVbLPflpA2L2fERa6HhzN7e10vXxA8K2BdPY4iwpkDE/s1600/millerites+founder.gif" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 160px; height: 233px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjwgUPAF2HXsWnOK57deQAWtYNag0rCb7GQFHipVT6V3BDetvvdGEvhibKdmfC0wsrjBlkw5OrxTUyuKk0_q-dWw-4_HXgijdln_XVbLPflpA2L2fERa6HhzN7e10vXxA8K2BdPY4iwpkDE/s400/millerites+founder.gif" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5609270997391175154" /></a></span></i></div><div style="text-align: center;"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#003300;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;">William Miller</span></span></i></div><div><br /></div><div>So why does this kind of thing keep happening? </div><div><br /></div><div>I'm not sure. </div><div><br /></div><div>Unlike some folks, I make no claim to <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_23">having</span> any special insight into the decision-making process of the Divine. In fact--and I know this is gonna sound a tad old-fashioned--but if I understand the concept correctly, thinking that you got a special link to God and can be taking on a god-like role of interpreting things and putting words into the Deity's mouth is possibly the most literal and despicable manifestation of blasphemy. For example, from this perspective, the <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_25">kuckledraggin</span>' goober from <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_26">Westboro</span> Baptist church represents a blasphemer of epic proportions.</div><div><br /></div><div>So while I would not presume to say, "Oh, God allows (or causes) this and that sort of thing to happen because of A, B, C and D," I will argue that there <i><b>is</b></i> some potential benefit we all can draw from situations like this current manifestation of failed apocalyptic prediction.<br /><br />Mind you, I am not trying to be glib about this. I do feel sorry for those folks who out of faith and hope, have complicated their lives beyond belief. I feel particular sympathy for the spouses and children of those people who have made things difficult and disastrous for themselves and their families because they decided to take this prediction literally. But for the rest of us, what benefit might be derived from what is, at its heart, a sad situation? </div><div><br /></div><div>How about if we look on it all as a good reminder that in fact, no, we <b><i>don't</i></b> know when or where the end will come for us, either individually or collectively. It could be any time. It could come long after we are all dust and unpaid debt...or...<i>it could be mere moments away</i>.</div><div><br /></div><div>Consequently, we should, as Marcus Aurelius tells us in his Meditations, seek to live every day as if it were our last. BUT for Marcus Aurelius (good stoic that he was) this didn't mean avoiding our responsibilities, or squeezing every bit of pleasure and self-indulgence out of an existence that could go tits up at any moment. No sir, it means that we have to continue to do what we are here to do. Because of the uncertainty of existence, it behooves us to live each day well, to always conduct ourselves honorably and kindly and productively.</div><div><br />So that's my reaction to all this kerfuffle. I hope you will forgive me for indulging in some reflection upon stuff that lies beyond pixels and prims. Please remember that I was in close proximity to some of the events of 9/11, and that experience has tended to give me a rather keenly developed perspective on the spectacular unpredictability of this life...and the end of this life. </div><div><br /></div><div>May we always appreciate the presence of the Divine and the precious opportunities of this existence...and while we are at it, may we all have the chance to live like <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_28">Bajorans</span> and die like <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_29">Klingons</span>. </div><div style="text-align: center;">~~~</div></div></div>Diohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14266713613721430111noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2265659668411443893.post-38643517912503663562011-05-15T00:21:00.000-07:002011-05-15T01:33:12.377-07:00The importance of building in SL<div style="text-align: center;">~~~</div>So once again, I haven't had much time to write ...or much to say. But that doesn't mean Dio has only been slaving away in meatspace. No, I've been able to have a bit of fun doing some building. You'll perhaps remember Alsium, the roman sim where I had been spending time, and which underwent an ownership change. We had an"earthquake" which required a totally new build and that's been underway for some time. Ultimately, final completion of the build was taken on by members of the community, and folks like CJ Escher, Clint Saxondale, and Caius Septimus, among others, have done some wonderful work. Yours truly got in on the act as well, and here's my contribution, an Iseum, or temple to Isis.<br /><br /><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgCIStf46wI0va6KDzaqloegXTX3dftQOkzdQ17NW-1BS5khCX_OmLD8umGLBQpS5fzj-sPhZSp2XCdUa3NLV1iPYxv_XuoVj5xkPkNMmx0yvaEyLykMDpFEWBLrmWv9UrNSxSRcdpHuIEC/s1600/Isis+temple+alsium+Snapshot_004.png" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 400px; height: 215px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgCIStf46wI0va6KDzaqloegXTX3dftQOkzdQ17NW-1BS5khCX_OmLD8umGLBQpS5fzj-sPhZSp2XCdUa3NLV1iPYxv_XuoVj5xkPkNMmx0yvaEyLykMDpFEWBLrmWv9UrNSxSRcdpHuIEC/s400/Isis+temple+alsium+Snapshot_004.png" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5606840587397739186" /></a>The build is <span style="font-weight:bold;"><i>very<span></span></i></span><i> </i>loosely based on the Temple of Isis in Pompeii, but it does utilize textures on the interior that include examples of the actual frescoes from the ruins of the real-life temple. You will note to the right side of the illustration below, the temple itself (which has several inner chambers to which only initiates and officiants may be admitted), and a ritual bath in a smaller structure to the left of the main "house of the Goddess."<div><br /><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiMJBT_H-d1StEZdz7KUL2P5TPFP-pak2lG82O1rwDxWy4Lnd6OLDg87dHMyZ_511JMvmy2uonmj3XePCJduSIwEl0YA-kP8G9tcStoxDgwl2ZAZmO1EzSShz2rUG04HYZMu6zTZM6iypUZ/s1600/+new+alsium+temple+Snapshot_002.png" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 400px; height: 215px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiMJBT_H-d1StEZdz7KUL2P5TPFP-pak2lG82O1rwDxWy4Lnd6OLDg87dHMyZ_511JMvmy2uonmj3XePCJduSIwEl0YA-kP8G9tcStoxDgwl2ZAZmO1EzSShz2rUG04HYZMu6zTZM6iypUZ/s400/+new+alsium+temple+Snapshot_002.png" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5606842990298015682" /></a>We had a dedication ceremony a week or so ago, and had a good turnout. It's a modest little build, but I certainly enjoyed working on it, and I learned a great deal in the process. Until I became involved with Isis-related projects for Alsium, I had no idea how massively popular the romanized "Cult of Isis" was (after initially being persecuted in the late Republic and early imperial eras). I also really didn't realize how colorful ancient roman buildings usually were.</div><br />After I finished the temple buildings, I also constructed a palaestra, or exercise ground, that incorporates elements of the real palaestras that exist in Pompeii, particularly the smaller, older one which had been built by the Samnites early in the city's history. I was pleased with how this build turned out as well, though due to its size and primminess, it isn't being used in Alsium (the version shown below is in fact, a second, smaller, lower-prim version, but it still came in at 100 prims). Even so, there is something so rewarding about taking an artifact that you have pictured in your mind and turning that mental conceptualization into reality (even if that reality is only a virtual one).<div><br /><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh3tBFqwrQU66p3rQES2IiDALBtjo7RiCzkXlhtPROjncVbBkEmAnKXYTQsSfUmwSUyAGbMqoLqGgeOEZ49syFHuZLqrLWZ8gBOAWHD_jJ3y-smjsNqBebzT5umehIv_L8O2xPg7mc_e4L9/s1600/palaestra+Snapshot_007.png" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 400px; height: 215px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh3tBFqwrQU66p3rQES2IiDALBtjo7RiCzkXlhtPROjncVbBkEmAnKXYTQsSfUmwSUyAGbMqoLqGgeOEZ49syFHuZLqrLWZ8gBOAWHD_jJ3y-smjsNqBebzT5umehIv_L8O2xPg7mc_e4L9/s400/palaestra+Snapshot_007.png" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5606849291749905442" /></a>Both of these builds--the Iseum and the palaestra--were produced for very specific purposes, to provide the settings for specific aspects of roleplay and events. But I will freely admit, the greatest joy I am likely to feel in connection with these structures is the sense of accomplishment and sheer fun that came with the construction process. I know we have talked about this before, but if I couldn't do these kinds of projects, I would find Second Life a whole lot less engaging. Despite my abysmal building skills, I have the ability to visualize something and execute it in Second Life, and by golly, have it turn out looking <i>not half bad.</i><div><i><br /><br /><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhECLrnoEQ-ZLtfJrNP9XgJiFEN06k6z4HCybRj-V2SGbRneq5EVdbZ7QRxN7TYTroR5um2gmxJdf4lJC-mR2QOsGl2ZoUk-G9zlEA7bL85f0GeFS2lCF17G7MRdGeRXL-S-JmbqErIF43c/s1600/palaestra+Snapshot_005.png" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 400px; height: 215px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhECLrnoEQ-ZLtfJrNP9XgJiFEN06k6z4HCybRj-V2SGbRneq5EVdbZ7QRxN7TYTroR5um2gmxJdf4lJC-mR2QOsGl2ZoUk-G9zlEA7bL85f0GeFS2lCF17G7MRdGeRXL-S-JmbqErIF43c/s400/palaestra+Snapshot_005.png" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5606852688462459266" /></a></i></div><div>I know the Lindens are working on various "improvements" to the platform. Christ's bootlaces, I sure hope they don't make it harder to build, or even worse, somehow decide they have to take this god-like capability away from the majority of us in the interest of simplifying the product and trying to make it more appealing to the mass audiences that other, less wondrous online destinations seem to attract.</div><div><br /></div><div>Today was my sixth rez day. I know I would not have made it this long without being able to do cool creative shit like this.</div><div style="text-align: center;">~~~</div></div>Diohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14266713613721430111noreply@blogger.com10tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2265659668411443893.post-83382700247973460562011-04-04T08:53:00.000-07:002011-04-04T09:34:42.898-07:00If you believe in the therapeutic value of self expression through creative writing....<div style="text-align: center;"><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgU-es8JgK-uwzU9m3TuV8zpQSGVcUlavDaUwkmpcY8LDxzFwRtw1Iu_-VYvcZg2GEuuTQr4yJmD9z1pFz26ZFRLPH0opJExxUKrxzPCufuefd4sa3bDEVhKkZjm9oGx4DnYKeeRzEuIObO/s1600/soldier+writing.jpg"><img style="display: block; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; width: 292px; height: 400px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgU-es8JgK-uwzU9m3TuV8zpQSGVcUlavDaUwkmpcY8LDxzFwRtw1Iu_-VYvcZg2GEuuTQr4yJmD9z1pFz26ZFRLPH0opJExxUKrxzPCufuefd4sa3bDEVhKkZjm9oGx4DnYKeeRzEuIObO/s400/soldier+writing.jpg" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5591764240208645490" border="0" /></a><span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 51, 0);">"Soldier Writing" by Jean Louis Torain, courtesy of WikiGallery.org</span><br /></div><br /><br />I believe in writing.<br /><br />When we express ourselves through the creative process of putting words on paper--or on a screen--it is possible to uplift ourselves, to inspire and move others, and sometimes to work through the things that haunt and challenge us.<br /><br />I've exorcised some pretty nasty demons with my writing. While I am appreciative of the idea that any of you bother with reading this nonsense I spew, and may sometimes even get a smile or a little "aha" moment out of it, I am really doing this for myself (self-centered old harpy that I am). I have other good friends who have made progress in their own lives and helped themselves to deal with events like divorce, 9/11, combat-related PTSD, sexual abuse and long-term unemployment though their creative writing.<br /><br />If you agree with this general idea, maybe you can help out a friend of mine who works with the Missouri Humanities Council. They are involved in a partnership with the Missouri Writers Guild and the Veterans Administration to support a creative writing project for veterans undergoing in-patient care at a VA facility near St. Louis. This particular facility has had a great creative writing program through their occupational therapy unit for a number of years, but right now they could use a little bit of help.<br /><br />The participants in the program currently do their writing with pencils on paper tablets. They could really use some laptops. My friend is working on getting some used and/or refurbished machines donated for the program, but he probably won't mind if I try to help too, since I really think this is important and useful. Not only does the writing generated by these men and women have a positive impact from a therapeutic standpoint--everyone needs to tell their story--but it also is generating documentation of a unique period in American history and the first-hand perspectives of the individuals who are living through it.<br /><br />So here's the deal: if you have any ideas on sources for good, serviceable laptops that could be donated for the program, please send a message with your thoughts to:<br /><br />Geoff@mohumanities.org<br /><br />They don't have to be fancy, just something with a decent-sized screen that can be used for basic word processing.<br /><br />Keep on writing, y'all.<br /><div style="text-align: center;">~~~<br /></div>Diohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14266713613721430111noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2265659668411443893.post-84071085571630467252011-04-03T04:16:00.000-07:002011-04-03T23:19:40.714-07:00In Search of the Enlightenment: finding a home in the 18th century in SL<div style="text-align: center;">~~~</div><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhMCUzweSsrQ04hD9wK2KXPh03eZNUQqp-q574Rgkb3OEOc6N1buQtMoi-e0jGjQ8K8E18KUFa1IHKLeVavqluxYRO8KXGksHyo4MJ4R3cTBrEAdWIN2XT-uZbx4GN89cjMxT8DtCWseARD/s1600/Melioria+Snapshot_003.png"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 400px; height: 215px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhMCUzweSsrQ04hD9wK2KXPh03eZNUQqp-q574Rgkb3OEOc6N1buQtMoi-e0jGjQ8K8E18KUFa1IHKLeVavqluxYRO8KXGksHyo4MJ4R3cTBrEAdWIN2XT-uZbx4GN89cjMxT8DtCWseARD/s400/Melioria+Snapshot_003.png" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5591337762015818402" border="0" /></a><i><div style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: normal; "><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#003300;">Principato di Melioria</span></i></span></div></i><br /><div>One of the principle joys of spending time in-world is that when you start to feel like you're in need of a change, you can easily take your adventures in a completely new direction. Sometimes, serendipity will run you over like a cartoon steamroller right away, and once you've peeled yourself off the virtual pavement, you'll find yourself in the midst of a fresh activity or new community that suits you nicely. Other times, you will find yourself on a pixelated Bataan death march through one place to another before you at last find some congenial environment to settle in for a spell. </div><div><br /></div><div>Well, a while back, this old girl took a notion to spend some time wandering through the 18th century in Second Life, and off I went. The process was initially a pretty slow one. There's a boatload of different places to look at, a pile of groups you can join, and a wide variety of ways to have fun within the context of an historical time period that was characterized by an explosion of intellectual and scientific exploration and experimentation, social and political upheaval, military and economic adventurism...</div><div><br /></div><div>...plus, the music is really cool and you get to wear big, theatrically foofy outfits, if you are so inclined.</div><div><br /></div><div>So, anyhow, I basically took a version of the Grand Tour, looking at different sims and communities. First off, let me state right now that I am not going to offer any value judgments on what place might be the most authentic or which roleplay crew is superior. I don't swing that way. People are all different, and God bless 'em, they have different interests and wildly divergent views on how to have fun. That's another great thing about SL: it accommodates spectacularly diverse ways of learning, interacting, and playing. If you don't find an environment and a community that suits your way of getting by in the world, then by golly you have the option of creating something that does. </div><div><br /></div><div>As far as the 18th century in SL, if you have an interest in roleplaying as a member of some royal court--complete with huge powdered wigs the size of Connecticut, intrigues, amours, and diplomatic shenanigans--you can certainly find that. You also can find beautiful builds that are just nice environments to look at, live in, or socialize in. My personal favorite in the latter category is Chenonceau, which I have mentioned in a previous post. But I was looking for something a bit different in terms of roleplay--a situation in which different kinds of narratives related to the inventiveness and uncertainty of the times could be developed a bit...</div><div><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEivTJO8f-b6qpB-k3I5_zcoL2UXgFw2Q1Cwb-sLlG4fCpY1FKC6TSAEHPFgqS6yhxKYAudpKf8F_Yb8TUgYdZ8aZhTFaiTQ6NSCZRmEvqUnTEd5gI2fO5slwzjTXvooGcczrLjafzDDiIGz/s1600/Melioria+Snapshot_009.png"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 400px; height: 215px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEivTJO8f-b6qpB-k3I5_zcoL2UXgFw2Q1Cwb-sLlG4fCpY1FKC6TSAEHPFgqS6yhxKYAudpKf8F_Yb8TUgYdZ8aZhTFaiTQ6NSCZRmEvqUnTEd5gI2fO5slwzjTXvooGcczrLjafzDDiIGz/s400/Melioria+Snapshot_009.png" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5591338766810476946" border="0" /></a></div><div style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://slurl.com/secondlife/westphalia/60/186/24/"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#003300;">http://slurl.com/secondlife/westphalia/60/186/24/</span></i></a></div><div><br /></div><div>...and then serendipity finally kicked in, thanks to a recommendation from the folks who run the Alsium sim. They gave me a landmark for a place called the Principato di Melioria, a fictional but historically plausible minor southern Italian principality ruled by an enlightened Prince. The gentleman in charge has ties to England and an interest in a variety of subjects ranging from archaeology to architecture, to hydraulic engineering. His tiny island principality flourishes thanks to low taxes, a very relaxed approach to trading and banking practices, and a welcoming attitude towards well-born tourists (and their money). Here is how the sim is described in an introductory notecard:</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>" The year is 1780 and the ruling family of Melioria is the House of Elswit, an English family with a complicated history of international social connections and business interests. Over the years they gained lands and titles, and with this roles in the history of England, the Holy Roman Empire, the Papal State, the Venetian Republic and finally they were bestowed with the island of Melioria, a small island in the Tyrrhenian Sea on the coast of Massa Lubrense near Napoli, which was elevated to a principato and since then became the main seat of the House of Elswit. </i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>The current head of the family and ruler of Melioria is Sua Altezza Capacitatodd Elswit, Principe di Melioria, Duca di Vesuviana, Nobile del Gran Consiglio della Serenissima Repubblica di Venezia and Principe del Sacro Romano Impero. By his own people and his friends he is described as an enlightened man, who has studied and travelled most of his life and has now settled in the seat of his family. </i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>Since 1738 when Herculaneum was rediscovered just to the north, followed by Pompeii in 1748, the island of Melioria has become a known spot for the young nobles of Europe on their Grand Tour. Known for its calm climate, secure private banking houses, no taxations on bank accounts and trade, the small casino and the famous curative mineral baths and waters. And of course for the incognito sanctuary it offers to royals and nobles alike across Europe.</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>In the last year however, during which the Principe reformed his island, many friends and visitors have arrived in the port of Melioria, making it more and more an international Port of Call. Venetian nobles have settled branches of their trade interests on the west side of the island, and with them arrived many others from the most serene republic of the north, to continue or even bring a new direction to their lives. French courtiers have discovered the mineral baths and some even enjoy the lack of formality. A Bavarian baroness travelling along the mediterranea has chosen the island as a residence to contemplate her life in a nicer climate.</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>In Melioria the most different lives of people come together on the island of this little principato. Nobles and merchants, tourists and workers, everyone has their role and finds their purpose without the need of caring too much about their position in life. For some it has proven to be a confrontational atmosphere, as they are cast back to their own personalities without the pomp of court life; others enjoy the simple life without obligations and spend their time contemplating, studying, writing, hunting or fencing.</i></div></div><div><br /></div><div>It's an interesting and entertaining place with a lovely and well-managed build, thanks to the efforts of sim owners CapabilityTodd Elswitt and Blue Revolution and others including Gallyon Milneaux and Sim Manager Aria Vyper. By the way, I wish to emphasize that Melioria is NOT a roleplaying sim, but instead, an historically-themed sim, on which rolpeplaying does occur at times. There is a modestly-sized but excellent roleplaying community on the sim. This loosely-organized group is open to new participants: you may have noted a reference to a "Bavarian Baroness" (an essentially correct description).<br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhsX3cFdQx2yUoY0erTHXE_pRL_0OdOVXUeQOERv6M8UAqiNa9_j5Lhr3i8W-7FxXSMCLilGOWIE9KWN2v4SerYBlpUisqWzP1G7_f63_x9W8cY4geRNXAxO1K6Gu_Z3kfjgpahHBzmJnh-/s1600/portrait+freifrauSnapshot_001.png"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 400px; height: 215px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhsX3cFdQx2yUoY0erTHXE_pRL_0OdOVXUeQOERv6M8UAqiNa9_j5Lhr3i8W-7FxXSMCLilGOWIE9KWN2v4SerYBlpUisqWzP1G7_f63_x9W8cY4geRNXAxO1K6Gu_Z3kfjgpahHBzmJnh-/s400/portrait+freifrauSnapshot_001.png" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5591339260544951730" border="0" /></a><div style="text-align: center;"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#003300;">Diogeneia Franziska Freifrau von Kühr</span></i></div><div style="text-align: center;"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#003300;"><br /></span></i></div>Yes, I have been welcomed in this intriguing little principality, and in fact the folks in Melioria have asked me to help with developing some rp guidelines, which we'll talk about in a subsequent post. In the meantime, please feel free to stop by and see the sim. Everyone and anyone is welcome to visit and shop and look around--you don't have to be wearing 18th century clothing or in the form of a human avatar to do so (period clothing and human form are only required if you wish to join in the roleplay).</div><br />Just please be aware that you have to be courteous and flexible. Sometimes there will be no roleplay going on, and everyone on the island isn't going to be into playing if you wish to start something. Also kindly remember that the houses, including the big villa on the hilltop are private residences and one should not enter without being invited to do so. And sometimes, the sim may be closed to the public due to an event--for example today (Sunday, 4/3/11), there is going to be a wedding on the island and the sim will be inaccessible for a while. Like I say, just be flexible.<div style="text-align: center;">~~~</div>Diohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14266713613721430111noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2265659668411443893.post-7075453156388176062011-03-28T23:30:00.000-07:002011-03-28T23:42:16.691-07:00Name Dio's ship winner!<div style="text-align: center;">~~~<br /></div><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiyGB6GXHd2-zUquWfonpq1dQBnSAslhYgM6ITQPwMjR_wtHtcoOTDpgAjgSoVKazRYroK-D0Y5DNt9cl8eTgPgVp-hsahrs1ltkJsnT9XjlsnRQboXoLRQQFIvy1CgdQ0cgfxmU9tjRw66/s1600/greek+ship+aldo+Snapshot_001.png"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 400px; height: 215px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiyGB6GXHd2-zUquWfonpq1dQBnSAslhYgM6ITQPwMjR_wtHtcoOTDpgAjgSoVKazRYroK-D0Y5DNt9cl8eTgPgVp-hsahrs1ltkJsnT9XjlsnRQboXoLRQQFIvy1CgdQ0cgfxmU9tjRw66/s400/greek+ship+aldo+Snapshot_001.png" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5589385987808098834" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(0, 51, 0); font-style: italic;">Since he won the contest, I let Aldo take a turn at the steering oars. It didn't end well.</span><br /><br />Well, I waited to get some more entries, then I got kinda busy with other crap (like the public service announcements) and finally I just decided it was time to pick something.<br /><br />So the winner is "Aanu"--ancient Egyptian for "beauty" or "that which attracts your own soul."<br /><br />My thanks go to my old friend Aldo for the suggestion. In fact, I want to thank everyone who sent a suggestion. There were some fine ones.<br /><br />Aldo gets a trade blanket and some cigars. Any of the rest of you who entered, come look me up in-world and I will be happy to take you sailing in Aanu (provided of course that SL is being kind to sailors). And what the hell, I'll probably give you some cigars and blanket too, if you want.<br /><div style="text-align: center;">~~~<br /></div>Diohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14266713613721430111noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2265659668411443893.post-71158551509342571092011-03-19T21:30:00.000-07:002011-03-19T22:34:50.356-07:00Dio's public service announcement number 2: Bloggers, please restrict your writing to stuff you actually know about or understand<div style="text-align: center;">~~~<br /></div>Do you have a blog?<br /><br />You do?<br /><br />Good.<br /><br />Please look at the picture below.<br /><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjkpwaaf1UWgbLy6pHXEdPnO8XvZXjMlws9lkQ8184YoWrU6ZELzyiMSEF35sKhZ9OFDY-kIV9D6BLFHatEnRCv7hU8t9oPn5sVRPZhxE5PTr-k77uIjK6uq868Z1d0BO6urhbFlEfLy9WA/s1600/Typing++monkey.jpg"><img style="display: block; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; width: 400px; height: 264px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjkpwaaf1UWgbLy6pHXEdPnO8XvZXjMlws9lkQ8184YoWrU6ZELzyiMSEF35sKhZ9OFDY-kIV9D6BLFHatEnRCv7hU8t9oPn5sVRPZhxE5PTr-k77uIjK6uq868Z1d0BO6urhbFlEfLy9WA/s400/Typing++monkey.jpg" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5586015367533624418" border="0" /></a><br /><br />Here's what we want you to try to do:<br /><br />Imagine that you are the typist in the above image. Think about the pictured typist. Imagine that this typist is a blogger...like you. Now, think about what this typist knows....think about what this typist understands...what kinds of experiences the typist has to draw on...<br /><br />Yes, this particular typist probably understands things like what can be eaten in a rain forest, what do live ants taste like, how far can poo be flung (taking into consideration pertinent factors such as fiber in the diet and wind direction and velocity), and how one can tell if a female of the species is in estrus (and what to do about it if she is).<br /><br />You may also reasonably conclude as a corollary that this typist probably does not know much about things such as the neo-industrial economy, has read relatively little Russian literature in the original language, and does not have any extensive or particularly sophisticated understanding of the complex nature of the customer base in SL and the diverse ways that this customer base adapts to and utilizes the platform in continually evolving ways.<br /><br />OK, so let us ask you a theoretical question, now that you have imagined yourself in the mind of the typist in the illustration, and pondered what this individual probably knows or does not know.<br /><br />Here's your question...ready?<br /><br />Does it make sense for this particular typist to try to write blog posts about subjects such as the neo-industrial economy, Russian literature in the original language, or the complex nature of the customer base in SL and the diverse ways that the customer base adapts to and utilizes the platform in continually evolving ways?<br /><br />If you answered a definitive "no" to that question, then you are doing just jim-fucking-dandy and can go about your bloggy business.<br /><br />On the other hand, if you answered "yes," or perhaps you aren't quite sure, we have a second question for you. But first allow us to add another set of considerations into our speculative parameters: let's say that this particular typist had left the rain forest that it started out in, went to another rain forest that was eventually cut down to be made into wobbly Swedish pre-fab furniture, and then returned to its original habitat without doing much to really grasp how that habitat had evolved, except talking mostly to forest rangers who had been fired rather than the majority of the animals who actually made the rain forest their home.<br /><br />Righto then, have you thought that all through?<br /><br />Good.<br /><br />Keeping all that in mind, please now answer the final question:<br /><br />Should this typist be blogging about <span style="font-weight: bold;">anything</span> other than how to find green bananas, his mom's live ant recipes, and/or specifics on the lag time between the point where females initially display signs of estrus and the point at which they actually are ready to mate?<br /><br />Have you answered the question?<br /><br />Good.<br /><br />Are you dying to know the significance of how you answered the question?<br /><br />Well, bucko, we're going to tell you whether you want to know or not.<br /><br />If you answered "no," then you're doing pretty good. You pass. Please continue contributing stuff on the internet.<br /><br />If you answered "yes," however, then you are a slackjawed wally with week-old rice pudding for brains. You have failed and should not be allowed to reproduce, drive a car, vote, or blog. If you have a blog, it has now passed into irrelevance or pointlessness, and you should go ahead and pull the plug and get a real job. Or you could keep doing it until it has actually gotten so far off the mark that it qualifies as quaint, or some people may even think that you are being ironic.<br /><br />Oh, wait...that's OUR job.<br /><br />Have a nice fucking day.<br /><div style="text-align: center;">~~~<br /></div>Diohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14266713613721430111noreply@blogger.com15tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2265659668411443893.post-28256194788032861092011-02-28T13:56:00.000-08:002011-02-28T16:30:12.674-08:00Dio's public service announcement no. 1: don't force an SL content maker to slap you silly<div style="text-align: center;">~~~<br /></div>Dear Reader:<br /><br />The following is a public service announcement, brought to you by the Dio Kuhr Department of Useful Things and Stuff You Should Know.<br /><br />Please study the image below:<br /><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjfMdJcTEA6S9SKNx3YHgCf1K5WcNUtuk0jyAN82VcpW1pDPc0JNMyqoAzaZ3ejhex4PaIsIUiZS2_OqvyG_9UjZREL4-1hSiBztXNMt6H_y8qnBjFszzASfs6W1pHavHQQLseKCuj0mOrH/s1600/smack.jpg"><img style="display: block; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; width: 288px; height: 400px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjfMdJcTEA6S9SKNx3YHgCf1K5WcNUtuk0jyAN82VcpW1pDPc0JNMyqoAzaZ3ejhex4PaIsIUiZS2_OqvyG_9UjZREL4-1hSiBztXNMt6H_y8qnBjFszzASfs6W1pHavHQQLseKCuj0mOrH/s400/smack.jpg" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5578863116988852834" border="0" /></a><br />Have you studied the illustration?<br /><br />Good.<br /><br />Does anyone in the illustration remind you of YOU?<br /><br />If so, then please continue reading.<br /><br />I have been asked by content makers in Second Life to convey this useful bit of knowledge:<br /><br />If you are someone who does roleplaying in Second Life -- oh, say, someone like The Royal Personage of Great Self-appointed Hoohah-ness and Mighty Bling, or maybe the evil Herr Oberslchonger von Grossestuckuppenderarsche -- when you contact a vendor or content-maker to discuss a customer service issue, do not...repeat, DO NOT try to stay "in character" while doing so.<br /><br />What will happen is that the vendor or content maker will get very, very irritated with you (see above illustration, again). They may not actually slap you, but they will want to do so very, very much. And that which we do in our hearts, we have done in reality, yes?<br /><br />Furthermore, (and this is just a hunch), you may also find that you get better customer service if you DO NOT try to stay in character while seeking to sort out whatever the problem is with whatever you bought from them.<br /><br />Yes, yes...we know you are a person of Power and Influence within a certain make-believe context. Yet there obviously are vendors and content makers who don't give a rat's left testicle that you <span style="font-style: italic;">are</span> a person of Power and Influence within that certain make-believe context.<br /><br />Does this lead you to conclude that said vendors and content makers are mean people?<br /><br />Well, yes...more than likely, they are. But many of them got mean because of having to deal with mud-eating knuckledraggers like you.<br /><br />So it all kind of evens out, doesn't it?<br /><br />Look...just do us all a big favor and simply talk to the vendor like a normal person when you want to let them know that the screaming snake-hair multi-color fatpack you bought from them didn't get delivered.<br /><br />TRUST ME...THINGS WILL WORK OUT MUCH BETTER.<br /><br />Thanks for listening...<br /><br />...and have a nice fucking day.<br /><br />- Dio<br /><br /><div style="text-align: center;">~~~<br /></div>Diohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14266713613721430111noreply@blogger.com6tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2265659668411443893.post-61209681196505519532011-02-14T13:17:00.000-08:002011-02-15T09:48:11.395-08:00The "Welcome to New York" effect in SL<div style="text-align: center;">~~~<br /></div>The first time I went to New York City, late in 1997, the circumstances associated with my arrival there were pretty much a spectacular three-ring goat screw. The whole mind-blowing festival of Shit Going Wrong featured late arrival of my flight, public transportation from JFK airport shut down for some ludicrous reason, and a nonexistent hotel reservation.<br /><br />The woman at the hotel front desk (whose level of concern for my situation was approximately the equivalent of the merest microscopic portion of a rat's left testicle), waited until I had completed a relatively inspired railing against the gods and fates. Then she looked at me for a moment, shrugged, and said in a deadpan manner that to this day, I consider the epitome of the genre...<br /><br />"Welcome to New York."<br /><br />That experience came to mind for me a couple weeks ago when I was hanging around in the vicinity of the Royal Court of Prussian King Friedrich der Grosse, (I have been on an 18th century kick lately--I shall endeavor to write more about this current fetish of mine at some other opportunity). Anyhow, there I was standing around in my small-town "freifrau" outfit, smoking my clay pipe and trying to rouse up some convo with the local gentry, when I was approached by a young lady who asked me if I could direct her to a place to get a proper 18th century court gown.<br /><br />The lass, who was very polite--though she typed her chat in a manner that suggested she was not a native speaker of English--had apparently been in SL every bit of three days. And she was at the point where some assistance and guidance was in order. Her hair and dress were in fact in need of some improvement, though in actuality I have certainly seen far less attractive outfits on much older avatars. Anyhow, no one else seemed inclined to be of much help, so I figured I might as well give it a go.<br /><br />Josephine, the young lady, turned out to be from Poland, and once I switched over to using the English to Polish translator built into the chat preferences gizmo, she could do a pretty good job of guessing what I meant as I jabbered at her. Bless her heart, she was struggling a bit with SL, but by damn, I sure do give her credit for how far she had gotten in three days. Her primary enthusiasm is 18the century European life, art and culture, and she had somehow managed to find places like Old Fritz's palace of Sansouci and a dress that was kind of cute, even if slightly inauthentic.<br /><br />We went shopping and talked some, and together we made a bit of progress. But a real low point hit the next day: she sent me a pathetic email asking for help. As I was in the middle of some rp, I told her I would be there as soon as possible. She politely said ok, she would wait...and when I finally teleported to her location...<br /><br />I found she was utterly and horrifically Ruthed.<br /><br />Ohmyfuckingawd, even in poorly translated typed chat, I could tell poor Jospehine was nearly in tears. Well it took some work, but I got her sorted out, got a decent skin and shape on her, found her a bald cap to kill the dreaded Ruth hair, and we put a nice dress and powdered wig on her.<br /><br />At this point, I wasn't sure how she felt about how things were working out, but after a long pause she said,<br /><br />"oh...I look beautiful!"<br /><br />And bugger me senseless if she didn't. It was just such a charming moment.<br /><br /><div style="text-align: center;"><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEheT8SU8RFmtV5DQLiCg0DVShvyG84pSHUONDvIYBqL2Tqn5vpogQ_uODGZ1oCY7AcWnFSBiBl6u8eFxvWLj-0NSWSqQv9hOrWrg0V-EDg5b0Entj3gJhzM-5vHb0DvxOOg5Y4TgjLizl1z/s1600/chenonceau+Snapshot_003.png"><img style="display: block; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; width: 400px; height: 216px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEheT8SU8RFmtV5DQLiCg0DVShvyG84pSHUONDvIYBqL2Tqn5vpogQ_uODGZ1oCY7AcWnFSBiBl6u8eFxvWLj-0NSWSqQv9hOrWrg0V-EDg5b0Entj3gJhzM-5vHb0DvxOOg5Y4TgjLizl1z/s400/chenonceau+Snapshot_003.png" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5573706751016103042" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(0, 51, 0);">J</span><span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 51, 0);">osephine and the Freifrau von Kühr at Chenonceau</span><br /></div><br />Sooooo, anyhoooo, we did some more shopping over the next few days, and talked about history and life and got to know each other a little bit, and we explored other 18th century sims. Among the places we went to was Chenonceau. It's a great build, though it never seems busy. And Josephine introduced me to a recreation of the Polish royal palace, where she and some other Polish rococo enthusiasts hang about. It's pretty freakin' impressive.<br /><br />Along the way, I tried to help her figure out how to use different elements of the viewer, but this effort was perhaps the least successful of our interactions. I periodically seemed to just puzzle and confuse her further with my explanations and instructions. I think Josephine was starting to get pretty frustrated with me, when I realized that a huge part of the problem was not just one of language and marginal translator programs...<br /><br />...it was the fact that I was on Phoenix and Josephine was using Viewer 2.<br /><br />Beelzebub's blazing bunghole! No wonder we weren't connecting on most of these issues! I was telling her to look for buttons and other shit in locations that were totally different from where they lived on her viewer.<br /><br />I can't believe that it took me so long to catch on to this simple reality. Just one more proof that this ol' girl's headguts ain't firin' on all cylinders.<br /><br />So I switched to Viewer 2 to see if I could be more help to her from there...and goddamn, it really didn't help that much. I have eschewed the use of Viewer 2 since the first week it was out when I tried it and found it to be a clunky, cluttered mess. I know some folks love it because it gives you more attachments points and hell, makes espresso, or some silly shit like that. But especially for role playing and combat where you need intuitive controls and a view that is as uncluttered as possible....it's a piece of weasel-squeezing pig snot.<br /><br />Overall--other than our confusion related to the different viewers--the experience with Josephine has been a very positive one. I like her very much and hope she enjoys her time in-world. But it inspired me to ponder what starting out new on the grid had been like back in 2004-5. It wasn't a particularly fast process, it sure as hell wasn't all that much fun, but at least it was made easier by the fact that I came over to SL with the migratory herd from The Sims Online, so I had people to help me.<br /><br />My heart really goes out to people like Josephine who come to SL nowadays without a support network like that--unless they run into someone who takes pity on them and decides to help like I happened to (guess she caught me on a good day). But you add into the whole "Welcome to New York" mix the fact that the new folks have to try to work with Viewer 2....and I have to ask myself, how in the name of St. Joe's toolbox does anybody make it past the first 15 minutes in-world? The hell with worrying about the first hour. I'm guessing far too many folks don't get anywhere near that point without tossing their monitor out the goddamn window.<br /><br />Which brings me back to "Welcome to New York."<br /><br />New Yorkers say that because...well...they're painfully aware that there is a certain Darwinian natural selection process that goes on in the city, and if you're going to stay there any length of time, you have to put on your adaptability galoshes pretty fuckin' quick. But in our virtual world, does it really have to be like that? I know the old mentor program was apparently flawed and for some reason the Lindens felt compelled to take the durn thing out behind the shed like Old Yeller and put a .44 round 'twixt its goddamn eyes. But nothing can really replace a human connection and the application of just a bit of some tolerance and kindness. Does it really take that much time away from our busy schedules to make an effort to help each other to be able to look in the mirror and say, "I am beautiful?"<br /><br />So what inspired me to randomly decide to assist this one gal? In all honesty, it helped that Josephine was very polite, intelligent, and patient, and didn't beg for money or do any of the other hundred little noobish malefactions that lead an old fart to shrug and shove 'em back over the railing into the river full of piranhas. But what would encourage us to regularly help more people to get up on their feet and run with the platform so as to enjoy it the way that us ancient fuckers do? And what about the people who aren't as nice as Josephine? I suppose you could argue that even the annoying gits deserve some kind of help when they are newly minted avatars--an opportunity to move beyond their initial gitliness?<br /><br />I have no answer--basic human kindness and consideration, unfortunately, doesn't seem to scale. At the same time, I am relatively confident that the answer can only be partially technological. Hell, maybe it's one of those things that if each of us helped just one other person...<br /><br />*sighs*<br /><br />Yeah, I'm probably not going to make it a regular habit of providing guidance to greenhorns, but by gawd, if you ever happen to see me shrug and tell someone, "Welcome to Second Life,"...you know...in<span style="font-style: italic;"> that </span>way... please just walk over and slap the shit out of me.<br /><div style="text-align: center;">~~~<br /></div>Diohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14266713613721430111noreply@blogger.com7tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2265659668411443893.post-73844603220628900742011-02-08T21:12:00.000-08:002011-02-08T22:23:24.302-08:00The BIG BIG Contest: name Dio's new ship!<div style="text-align: center;">~~~</div><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiJ6NoNldwygwKg3kd6caih9xDu7p85I2ayfEwqb4ty2APtF_402-nWxJydW7WjcbNigLHt9yE-GI_tS031jlpE7OFiYX8N7-6eEYJyX7KYRUgNyFDoB1RvnMoWjmmcWgoJYMFlfCzuu7py/s1600/kyrenia+Snapshot_002.png"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 400px; height: 216px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiJ6NoNldwygwKg3kd6caih9xDu7p85I2ayfEwqb4ty2APtF_402-nWxJydW7WjcbNigLHt9yE-GI_tS031jlpE7OFiYX8N7-6eEYJyX7KYRUgNyFDoB1RvnMoWjmmcWgoJYMFlfCzuu7py/s400/kyrenia+Snapshot_002.png" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5571555823550916162" /></a><br />As you will recall from my previous post (taking the thoroughly unreasonable leap of faith that you read this ridiculous swill-pot full of humbuggery I call a blog), I have utterly fallen in love with my Greek "Kyrenia" ship from the folks at Ars Navalis (please refer back to the aforementioned previous post for the Slurl). At the conclusion of my silly little essay, I mentioned that I needed an appropriate name for my beautiful little ship. Then Iggy suggested in his comment that we have a contest to name the pretty little thing. So let's have a go...<div><br /></div><div>And yes, feel free to blame Iggy for this....<br /><br />Let's start by setting some parameters:<br /><br />I intend to use this ship in the harbor of the ancient Roman sim, Alsium, so I will give more points to someone who suggests a name that is fitting and acceptable for the Mediterranean world of the second century, AD.<br /><br />So yes, you can submit silly names like "Sir Loin of Beef" or "Fast, Fun & Easy"--and I assure you we will share such submissions and smirk mightily--<i>but</i> they are unlikely to win. So think ancient, if you actually have a competitive bone in your body. Hey, you can enter as often as you like--submit all the entries you want--so if you want to toss out some silly ones as well as ones that might actually win this mashugenah contest, knocketh thyself out.<br /><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgjNM1J0Y2uWhCRMAwtkepYKTWsegtvXO_oVbxk9UzoncYMThkxfOnOgbAmFQGO1rtpfjwiG7XWn5RSUpJqxhE_zKCg2QLTWDwnCVOdq-9FZkHUK7hfHjEr1xIgzq5m_wPhsw8VxPLKolec/s1600/kyrenia+Snapshot_006.png"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 400px; height: 216px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgjNM1J0Y2uWhCRMAwtkepYKTWsegtvXO_oVbxk9UzoncYMThkxfOnOgbAmFQGO1rtpfjwiG7XWn5RSUpJqxhE_zKCg2QLTWDwnCVOdq-9FZkHUK7hfHjEr1xIgzq5m_wPhsw8VxPLKolec/s400/kyrenia+Snapshot_006.png" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5571556472393094402" /></a><br />Perhaps you can derive some inspiration from the backstory I have developed for use in Second Life's ancient era roleplaying sims. As I pointed out to Iggy in my response to his comment, the character I have created for ancient rp is the greco-egyptian widow of a wine merchant from Alexandria, in the Roman province of Aegyptus. So a Greek or Egyptian name would be plausible. This 2nd century AD incarnation of Dio is only marginally romanized, so maybe she'd go for a latin name, ...or...maybe not. I should also mention that in her backstory, she traveled a lot with her husband the wine merchant Sinuhe, before he didst snuff it. They went all around the known world, buying and selling wine--so she might also consider a Phoenician or Persian name, as this Dio speaks some of both those languages. I hope you also note that like most of my characters, this Dio has some chutzpah, and enjoys her independence. It is also worth noting that she is a devout follower of the Cult of Isis. </div><div><br /><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj38Nb_Q96-oR_Z0pU0-UrRM-0Wk3AyqVNei2T_TJYtilGNkArgj-I3UGtGieAIcVhfTvEp6UBNdYMUR2lNIrHIcIuTVuyGA1i-eYFFkccKEHli_Q2ekfhP_sWgDCi8uxk28B-2yCldigjP/s1600/kyrenia+Snapshot_007.png"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 400px; height: 216px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj38Nb_Q96-oR_Z0pU0-UrRM-0Wk3AyqVNei2T_TJYtilGNkArgj-I3UGtGieAIcVhfTvEp6UBNdYMUR2lNIrHIcIuTVuyGA1i-eYFFkccKEHli_Q2ekfhP_sWgDCi8uxk28B-2yCldigjP/s400/kyrenia+Snapshot_007.png" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5571555244048806306" /></a><br />As for the jolly little vessel herself, I think you can see that she has oodles of personality and charm. Her lines are very clean and slightly elegant, and there is a brightness to her overall look that just makes you want to hug the damn thing.</div><div><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEivqInbqImJ5eO6X0utIDaBO9Pp768EcjaeaEBb7x8lJE89cb-PPrWblVOrRmQBzaLOk4c0tCPWgZC8s-QkseenIpCpF7N1ZcCFhELzEMvcRWTdaPIvoOvgQ9yKQUGFhTsLJAylkOV9I6ki/s1600/kyrenia+Snapshot_004.png"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 400px; height: 216px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEivqInbqImJ5eO6X0utIDaBO9Pp768EcjaeaEBb7x8lJE89cb-PPrWblVOrRmQBzaLOk4c0tCPWgZC8s-QkseenIpCpF7N1ZcCFhELzEMvcRWTdaPIvoOvgQ9yKQUGFhTsLJAylkOV9I6ki/s400/kyrenia+Snapshot_004.png" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5571556169851372530" /></a></div><br />I have taken her out on the Blake Sea and even there, I find she handles relatively well for an SL sailing ship. She can move quickly and turn on a sesterse.<br /><br />So what do you think? Give it your best shot or shots.<br /><br />Or not. That's ok too. I will think of something sooner or later if you goobers can't come up with anything that ain't too terrible.<br /><br />So what will you win? How about one of my Hudson's Bay trade blankets with the "sitting cross-legged" pose, and some boxes of my 19th century cigars, AND I will take you out for virtual drinks in all of my favorite drinking establishments in SL. How's that sound?<br /><br />So let's give this a week. Post your entries here in the comments section, or send me an IM if you're really goddam shy, or hell, post it on twitter if you want (but I might miss them there). Submissions will be judged on various utterly subjective criteria, such as creativity, originality, appropriateness and whether or not you're somebody I actually would want to go have drinks with.<div><br /></div><div>So good luck, have fun, and think how good you're gonna look sitting on that ratty trade blanket.</div><div style="text-align: center;">~~~</div>Diohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14266713613721430111noreply@blogger.com5tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2265659668411443893.post-17615148871775413182011-02-07T19:51:00.000-08:002011-02-08T07:36:30.297-08:00The most beautiful thing I own in SL<div style="text-align: center;">~~~<br /></div><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgSuKJvt_GFbOe8ryFMSE9KZsqjoFL1EgEnpYYKWcfu9vT5WSw6eiqcWddbCqkEJcZKQz4VpYK91Xty6cpadqZeOu8hr-2_WukxnMhyphenhyphenkjYMitW-SlYGgK0GoZdU-qP8pvymAVRpbaoda_k9/s1600/+greek+shipSnapshot_001.png"><img style="display: block; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; width: 400px; height: 216px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgSuKJvt_GFbOe8ryFMSE9KZsqjoFL1EgEnpYYKWcfu9vT5WSw6eiqcWddbCqkEJcZKQz4VpYK91Xty6cpadqZeOu8hr-2_WukxnMhyphenhyphenkjYMitW-SlYGgK0GoZdU-qP8pvymAVRpbaoda_k9/s400/+greek+shipSnapshot_001.png" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5571161814573759730" border="0" /></a><br /><br />Last night I bought what is undoubtedly the most beautiful thing I have ever owned in SL.<br /><br />Yes I know, I own some other things that come very close. Like my Kiergarten Armory Sharp's carbine. That is probably the second most beautiful thing I own in SL...and...oh, yeah...Ernst Osterham's boxlock shotgun...and Lockmort Mortlock's SAA Colt....<br /><br />OK, ok... so I own a number of exquisite objects that have been crafted by SL content makers.<br /><br />But those things are all tied for second place.<br /><br />The hands-down most beautiful thing I have ever owned is this recreation of a 4th century BC Greek ship produced by Linteus Dench and sold at the Ars Navalis combination store, dock and museum, which can be found at<br /><br /><a href="http://slurl.com/secondlife/Mon%20joie/205/23/25/">http://slurl.com/secondlife/Mon%20joie/205/23/25/</a><br /><br />Lint and the other folks at Ars Navalis have been making ancient and Gorean sailing ships and galleys for a couple years. I have seen their work before and admired it. We had a couple of his static ship models--ancient Roman merchant ships--in the harbor at the old Alsium build, and I was truly impressed with their detail, historical accuracy and relatively low prim count (83 prims for a large and very authentic cargo ship). But I had not really considered buying one of their ships until last night. I was over at the Ars Navalis docks, looking at their products with my friends Amber and Caius. Finally I just decided, "fuck it, I'm gonna get one of these suckers."<br /><br />I picked the fat pack of the "Kyrenia" ship, which included a static model, a "drivable" model, and a sailing model. The whole schmear was 2,500 Lindens. The ship is beautifully built, sails nicely in its sailing version, and <span style="font-style: italic;">it is only 26 fucking prims</span>.<br /><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh87IakEz6HIctnsBra5GzPmw1fungbD9Z5zAMphNR-afmUxy_iAd2g98bW5pbxRzLDHr5gYYEFVMmtOOMmKdMdDg2W2DChmKHvIrCuhMPAx8RuYQQgPFhNJu-uaixsnNRI4IdRm5aRbmPh/s1600/+greek+shipSnapshot_002.png"><img style="display: block; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; width: 400px; height: 216px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh87IakEz6HIctnsBra5GzPmw1fungbD9Z5zAMphNR-afmUxy_iAd2g98bW5pbxRzLDHr5gYYEFVMmtOOMmKdMdDg2W2DChmKHvIrCuhMPAx8RuYQQgPFhNJu-uaixsnNRI4IdRm5aRbmPh/s400/+greek+shipSnapshot_002.png" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5571166225562727826" border="0" /></a><span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 51, 0);">And it's FUN to sail too! Here my friend Caius takes a turn--he had such a good time he bought one of the other Ars Navalis ships the same night!</span><br /><br />The only issue I had with it is that because I am such a dinky, delicate little creature, when I was steering my ship, my hands didn't quite reach the crossbars on the steering oars when I was in the steering pose. So tonight I got out my boat at the Ars Navalis docks and began making little handles to attach to my hands when I am steering, so that it would appear that the crossbars are long enough to connect with my hands...and lo and behold, along came Linteus, the owner, and he fixed the problem for me, then and there.<br /><br />Thanks Lint! You're a real mensch.<br /><br />And since he was there, I got to talking to him about their operation there.<br /><br />It turns out that Lint is an archaeologist in his meatspace existence, and builds ancient ships in Second Life because <span style="font-style: italic;">he loves doing it.</span> We talked quite a while about ships and history and how you make things like sailing ships work in Second life. It turns out that my Kyrenia ship is based on an actual wreck that has been excavated, and it took Lint about a year to complete the recreation of it to his satisfaction. Among other things, I learned that the basic style of ship I bought--even though it is based on a wreck dating from the 4th century BC--was used much earlier and continued in use considerably later than that era. So in fact, I can legitimately use it in our 2nd century AD Roman sim.<br /><br /><div style="text-align: center;"><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjruyb6fb77D4hYGyzWNSdWLmMLMKgj_ZKZpgkV6TY224SCS34wxgzxkzwu_KWqhpDSoJdGMnFhfEA0_0Ut-IDZxR5cjocxHkkvtjqpVhEDdcMPzq_wEDyGpPePmyH9FnTV0ujK8D1cg9Rn/s1600/+linteusSnapshot_001.png"><img style="display: block; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; width: 400px; height: 216px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjruyb6fb77D4hYGyzWNSdWLmMLMKgj_ZKZpgkV6TY224SCS34wxgzxkzwu_KWqhpDSoJdGMnFhfEA0_0Ut-IDZxR5cjocxHkkvtjqpVhEDdcMPzq_wEDyGpPePmyH9FnTV0ujK8D1cg9Rn/s400/+linteusSnapshot_001.png" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5571169456370764850" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(0, 51, 0); font-style: italic;">Linteus Dench and the Kyrenia ship.</span> </div><br />They have other ships as well..war galleys, rams, Gorean fantasy warships, a 14th century BC trading ship, all for sale--some in versions that can be sailed, some that can be used in naval combat, and others that are simply static models (because they are too high prim to go sailing). Static models seem to mostly run in the 1000 Linden range, while sailing versions are around 2K.<br /><br />The coolest thing however, is that in addition to the ships that can be purchased--and the availability of some open water so you can try out your new boat right away--there is a museum space with exhibits about ancient ships and information on the written and artistic historical sources that help us to understand the history of these ships. There is even a recreation of an underwater excavation of an ancient wreck.<br /><br /><div style="text-align: center;"><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjb6UR4aYn9EGh_49L83-FVMf0P2Q-noenAxVl_DOAJ73KjyL9fFwb5Ll-KMzaiP4ZZx44e9rYLNzx7a9M_sOEq31QbaB623S1ZZeJkTkVMxpxGZOlQel-y5Rq8dny3CUUjT-L0V5jv04jF/s1600/+linteusSnapshot_002.png"><img style="display: block; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; width: 400px; height: 216px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjb6UR4aYn9EGh_49L83-FVMf0P2Q-noenAxVl_DOAJ73KjyL9fFwb5Ll-KMzaiP4ZZx44e9rYLNzx7a9M_sOEq31QbaB623S1ZZeJkTkVMxpxGZOlQel-y5Rq8dny3CUUjT-L0V5jv04jF/s400/+linteusSnapshot_002.png" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5571172448115649250" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(0, 51, 0); font-style: italic;">Lint in his virtual museum</span><br /></div><br />The ironic thing is that the other night Serenek and I went to visit a very official, institutionally-created "virtual exhibit" that was ok...but sort of crude and half-assed and oh-so-very-2007. In fact, the build had some recreated sailing ships..that again, were OK...but which were rather sloppily made, poorly textured and ridiculously high prim...like 100's of prims.<br /><br />This particular "educational" sim apparently has never been updated...as often happens with didactic builds in SL , someone finished the project and walked away from it. And now it's just kinda embarrassing.<br /><br />But at Ars Navalis, you have an example of someone who built their own museum, not as a project that they did as a "hired gun" content developer, or for class credit, but because they loved the subject and wanted to share their understanding of the story. Even better, they have continued to update and improve the build and its features, while selling you cool stuff they have built so you can really become engaged with the story that is being told. AND you can have some fun at the same time.<br /><br />Learning...fun...cool stuff...nice and interesting people to talk to....all the things I love about this crazy platform.<br /><br />Now I just have to think of a good name for my beautiful little ship.<br /><div style="text-align: center;">~~~<br /></div>Diohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14266713613721430111noreply@blogger.com7tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2265659668411443893.post-7929672071504519212011-01-17T13:51:00.001-08:002011-01-17T21:32:33.302-08:00A Funny Thing Happened on My Way to the Agora: community and participatory sim management in SL<div style="text-align: center;">~~~<br /><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgwsHTp53HmxSixyhVS5_WLFEkhJDjEmtZPRhVcZOTl63AUJ-7t3JauVRg457EYYM0ksXkWeBq-CxB_0Ytzu3U0l4sG_AnraowMLe4CcndP3Xp5V7Y8Rafs2qEKkvoR9upYkh-tcnFPkjca/s1600/Pericles-in-the-Agora1.jpg"><img style="display: block; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; width: 300px; height: 200px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgwsHTp53HmxSixyhVS5_WLFEkhJDjEmtZPRhVcZOTl63AUJ-7t3JauVRg457EYYM0ksXkWeBq-CxB_0Ytzu3U0l4sG_AnraowMLe4CcndP3Xp5V7Y8Rafs2qEKkvoR9upYkh-tcnFPkjca/s400/Pericles-in-the-Agora1.jpg" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5563284292565187890" border="0" /></a><span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 51, 0);">Pericles in the Agora</span><br /><br /><div style="text-align: left;">My friend Sere and I have been active in a couple of the same sims over the last year or so, and I find it useful to talk with her about our shared experiences. I greatly value her perspective, not just because she is coming from a very different background than mine (academic), and therefore understands things in ways that I am not necessarily inclined to, but also because she is whole hell of lot smarter than I am.<br /><br />So the other night we were talking about what makes certain sims work, and others flop, and the thing she brought up was a connection between the degree to which a sense of community identity and common shared purpose is developed, and the level of success and survivability that a sim experiences.<br /><br />This made sense to me, and I asked her, "ok if we need to build community to make a sim live long and prosper, how do we do that?<br /><br />She replied that she thought it came down to a couple of things: make sure that the sim residents feel like they are listened to, and have a defined role in managing the sim and making things happen; that the residents must feel that their contributions and ideas are valued and respected; and there should be structured means to give the residents the opportunity to participate and contribute.<br /><br />This seemed reasonable. I have certainly seen sims where there were some very good structured systems--such as town councils, circle of elders, elections, etc.--that brought the residents into the process and made it clear to them that they had a role in fostering progress. And of course it only works if those systems are actually utilized and the residents ideas and opinions and contributions are taken seriously. It doesn't work if they are just given lip service while the local oligarchy goes forward with making all the decisions, crafting scenarios and determining what the sim is going to have in it.<br /><br />The sad reality of it, of course, is how seldom this happens. Most sims are run by a small cadre or an individual with a distinct vision (or as de Tocqueville described it, "the despotism of selfishness"). Some people come up with an idea, find the money to start a sim and then by golly, they are going to run it in such a way as to assure that they get what they want and need out it. We all have the potential to be sim despots within us. How often have all of us said, "great horny toads, if I ever win the lottery, I am going to buy my own private island, build what I want, and as GAWD is my witness, I shall run it the RIGHT WAY!"<br /><br />Which of course, you can....it's just that the likelihood that it will be a successful, dynamic, well-populated sim is relatively remote, unless you bring others into the mix to help you build a community and collectively work as a community to make the sim move forward.<br /><br />Which brings us back to de Tocqueville, who said, in writing on democracy in early 19th century America:<br /><br /><span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">"...as soon as a man begins to treat of public affairs in public, he begins to perceive that he is not so independent of his fellow men as he had first imagined, and that in order to obtain their support he must often lend them his cooperation..."</span><br /><br />I then said to Sere, "well, hon...giving people role in decision making--even if it's just getting their opinion, making them feel their contribution is valued...communication and respect...that all sorta sounds a lot like what LL is going to have to do on a macro scale to make SL survive n' thrive."<br /><br />She laughed and said, "yes, but that's going to be a lot harder than just doing so in one sim."<br /><div style="text-align: center;">~~~<br /></div><br /><br /><br /><br /></div></div>Diohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14266713613721430111noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2265659668411443893.post-33007464112403844672011-01-05T19:58:00.000-08:002011-01-06T19:33:31.785-08:00"Rectangles R Us"--content creation for the clinically inept<div style="text-align: center;">~~~<br /></div>I love Dusan Writer's blog. Even with the qualification that a good 30% of what he has to say goes completely over my head, I love to read his stuff. In the parts that I am able to comprehend, I always find something illuminating, thought-provoking, or just beautifully phrased. For example, I really enjoyed <a href="http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/11/26/learning-from-clever-people-lessons-for-online-communities/">a piece he did back in late November</a> about the idea that companies that are involved with "participant media" and building "digital communities" (such as Linden Lab does with Second Life) should value, engage, and jolly well make sure they retain the "clever people" among their customer base. He argues that particularly in a product like Second Life, the people who have the motivation, creativity and skills to create high quality content are vital to the health of the enterprise.<br /><br />Sadly, however, Dusan concludes:<br /><br /><span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">"...that Linden Lab has abandoned its 'clever people'.</span><br /><br /><span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">The Lab turned its back on 'Your World, Your Imagination,' as Philip clearly did (and told me so, when I interviewed him at SLCC) and as others at the Lab continue to do.</span><br /><br /><span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">In the discussions about mesh import, for example, Jack Linden made the point that 'there are very few creators' in response to my question about the cultural implications of mesh. This implies that the number is significant, and equates a one-to-one relationship between how many people there are and the influence they have on the culture of an online community.</span><br /><br /><span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">Jack (and others) would say that mesh changes very little, it doesn’t shift the emphasis out of the in-world experience, because the number of creators is very small....But the larger significance is that the Lab’s principle concern is with a volume of people – that it’s the larger 'casual users' who matter, the users who haven’t even arrived yet. Philip said to me: “And most of them will never rez a prim, so it’s not really ‘Your World, Your Imagination’ because for them, they’re just shopping and hanging out.'</span><br /><br /><span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">Which may be true (although I’d argue that you enter a world of your own imagination no matter WHO you are, when you arrive in Second Life and many other online platforms) but places a certain literal faith in the power of numbers alone."</span><br /><br />I'm really glad there are bright people like Dusan who actually get to talk with the folks at the Lab, and who can come back with something for the rest of us to chew on. What is really fascinating to me in this particular discussion is the idea that it seems there are only two groups being focused on--the small minority that has wild skills and the hyper-creative warp drive to make really awesome shit, and the large majority of "casual users."<br /><br />The thing that doesn't quite fit for me in that world view, however, is that I really believe that the majority--the big lumpy pile of avatar flesh and blingy bits called "casual users"--is actually more diverse and complex than the Labsters seem willing to acknowledge. I find it curious (and disturbingly revealing ) that Philip argued that in the case of the common garden variety <span style="font-style: italic;">boobis avataris</span>, <span style="" most="" of="" them="" will="" never="" rez="" a=""><span style="font-weight: bold;">"most of them will never rez a prim."<br /><br /></span>Perhaps that was only hyperbole. I hope it was, because it is a view that misses the fact that there are a great many of us who might be considered causal users because we lack the skills to make wonderful content, but by golly, that certainly doesn't keep us from using at least some of the tools provided by the platform to make all kinds of crazy crap.<br /><br />Let me offer up myself as an example:<br /><br />I am </span><span style="">utter and inescapably </span><span style="" most="" of="" them="" will="" never="" rez="" a="">digitally challenged; a recovering cyber-luddite with a limited range of skills. Yet that has not stopped me from being a sort of content creator in my own right. OK...yes, admittedly it is often pretty retarded stuff, but I have a hell of a lot of fun making simple bits and bobs and using them to enhance my experience and personalize my environment in-world. In fact, my friend September Blasidale (who has a similar skill level to mine in the content creation department) and I have decided to embrace our ineptitude and opened a vendor space in the Deadwood OOC area to hawk some of the less awful junk we have caused to appear in the pixelated vale of tears.<br /><br />We have named our enterprise "Rectangles R Us"--because that's pretty much what we can handle: books, posters and pictures, a Hudson bay trade blanket, cigar boxes, ammo boxes....you get the picture. I have even produced a piece of furniture--a dry sink. In short, if it can be made from rectangular prims, we can pretty much deal with it without too much trouble. Sort of.<br /><br /></span><div style="text-align: left;"><span style="" most="" of="" them="" will="" never="" rez="" a=""><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhPMHTlwueK6Akx7C00MQ8ZNlXEnN3z5xD5Hbk-iFlA7Cf5RZv9o4Wb5uRpxwOsDJg_v6qL_r5OGKctJRl3e7S9AJVfoGd_cGeZZhch04RHbzQAp5tpQ32ZiyZ7bqatqpofHQW1CJdG9qDY/s1600/our+store+rectangles+Snapshot_004.png"><img style="display: block; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; width: 400px; height: 216px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhPMHTlwueK6Akx7C00MQ8ZNlXEnN3z5xD5Hbk-iFlA7Cf5RZv9o4Wb5uRpxwOsDJg_v6qL_r5OGKctJRl3e7S9AJVfoGd_cGeZZhch04RHbzQAp5tpQ32ZiyZ7bqatqpofHQW1CJdG9qDY/s400/our+store+rectangles+Snapshot_004.png" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5558930550374758434" border="0" /></a><span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 51, 0);">September and I at our booth in the Deadwood vendor area. </span></span><span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 51, 0);">And yes, rectangles are the predominant form of prim on the premises.</span><br /></div><span style="" most="" of="" them="" will="" never="" rez="" a=""><br /><br />Look, I won't blow any smoke up yer hoohoo about it. I know my limitations. Sculpties scare me. Torturing a prim is torture for me. Hell's britches, it took me about a year to get around to putting a decent "squatting cross-legged" animation into that mashugana trade blanket, and even then I could only do it with guidance from Clay.<br /><br />But I like the stuff I create. I have a great time either taking pictures of real-world stuff that I or my friends have (such as ammo boxes, antique beer ads, or the labels on vintage cigar boxes), or finding public domain images, and turning them into unique textures for what I want to make.<br /><br />And the thing is, if I really put my mind to it, I <span style="font-style: italic;">probably</span> could learn to make more sophisticated stuff--it's just that it would be an ugly and unappetizing process (think "making sausage"). Because let's face it, when it comes down to the bubble and squeak of creating content, I <span style="font-style: italic;">am</span> a "casual user"...but it's certainly not a case of being someone who "will never rez a prim."<br /><br />I believe that the creative potential of the platform is very important to me and people like me. No, we will never be super-duper "clever people." But I am convinced there are an astonishing number of us who fall into this sizable category that lies in between "the makers of really cool shit" and the folks who want to just hang out and shop (by the way, I fucking loathe shopping in SL almost as much as I do irl--but that's another story for another time).<br /><br />I just hope that if Dusan is ever able to talk LL into not abandoning the "clever people," he might also convince them to not forget those of us who are among the "cheerfully inept."<br /></span><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="" most="" of="" them="" will="" never="" rez="" a="">~~~</span><br /></div><span style="" most="" of="" them="" will="" never="" rez="" a=""><br /><span style="font-weight: bold;"><br /><br /></span></span>Diohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14266713613721430111noreply@blogger.com11tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2265659668411443893.post-49465520621066018912010-12-23T22:15:00.000-08:002010-12-30T14:55:19.612-08:00Rod Humble comes to LL: we got a new guy to break in<div style="text-align: center;">~~~<br /></div>Linden Lab announced today that they have a new CEO coming on board in January: Rod Humble, who will be leaving a vice president post at Electronic Arts, where he oversaw the <span style="font-style: italic;">Sims</span> brand.<br /><br />So what does this mean for us, the surviving residents of SL, the unpaid part of the equation that creates the content that makes the platform an attractive and viable product?<br /><br />Well boils and gurls, I ain't sure. My inclination is to say that it's a <span style="font-weight: bold;">good sign</span>, suggesting that LL isn't getting ready to pull the plug on SL anytime soon. And I like the idea that the guy comes from a background that actually involves games and online communal activity (he had a role in Sony's Everquest before going to EA). But I've been wrong before. You're welcome to ask any of my former spouses--I'm sure they'll be happy to tell you in detail exactly how <span style="font-style: italic;">much</span> I have been wrong before. So here's some random evidence I have collected, which I invite you to review and consider, and then we can try to arrive at some conclusions together:<br /><br />First off, here is a picture of Mr. Humble in his work space:<br /><br /><div style="text-align: center;"><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgAk7fPkFmZlcW3EMChCH3G5hmNGw6bMjQ9yow9IeI-vsyihBXmhk6WWvg-tKGMO5UJySkBgqny6Md6w2z7qM1OKdZgNyQ095fbuRHM5XM8tEJ3ZsWbWq2ZA1VloRrO63eE6vQgWKm9KEFK/s1600/Rod_Humble_in_Office.jpg"><img style="display: block; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; width: 400px; height: 300px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgAk7fPkFmZlcW3EMChCH3G5hmNGw6bMjQ9yow9IeI-vsyihBXmhk6WWvg-tKGMO5UJySkBgqny6Md6w2z7qM1OKdZgNyQ095fbuRHM5XM8tEJ3ZsWbWq2ZA1VloRrO63eE6vQgWKm9KEFK/s400/Rod_Humble_in_Office.jpg" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5554128776325608370" border="0" /></a><span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">photo from Kotaku.com</span><br /></div><br />You will note that not only is Mr. Humble not a terribly pretentious looking dude, he's got toys on his desk--there's a little tank and some ships, and other crap, not unlike the crap I have in my office. So he's human--that kind of bodes well...maybe.<br /><br />I also found a blurb from when he was made a VP at EA back in October 2008:<br /><br /><span style="font-style: italic;">"Humble will be responsible for The Sims Label, which develops and markets life-simulation games and online communities with an emphasis on creativity, community and humor." </span><br /><br />I like the fact that when he was moving up the food chain at EA, among the things they mentioned about the brand he would be managing was the emphasis on community and humor. Those are things I value highly, and hopefully he actually has s commitment to both of those ideals.<br /><br />That said, I must admit I find it mildly disturbing that he worked for EA. I haven't had anything to do with that particular company since the days of <span style="font-style: italic;">The Sims Online</span>, but when I did have some dealings with them, the people I was interacting with were a mixed bag--some were decent, straight-shooting types; others were consistently condescending, manipulative pukes. So it could go either way.<br /><br />I will admit to having been a bit confused about when Mr. Humble actually joined EA--it turns out he went there in 2004, but it is unclear to me as to how much he was involved with TSO before it was killed off in August '08. He seems to have been more directly associated with the various offline manifestations of "The Sims" franchise, so hopefully he isn't burdened with any of the responsibility for the incandescent three-ring cluster-fuck that was EA's mismanagement of TSO. That is, however, only my impression of the circumstances. I'd love to get to ask him if he had any hand in what happened to TSO, and what kinds of lessons he thinks might have been learned from that particular adventure.<br /><br />For that matter, it would be fun to talk with him about what kinds of things he discovered overseeing "The Sims" lable from late 2008 until the present. If you read the comments made by "community members" <a href="http://www.simprograms.com/27331/rod-humble-head-of-sims-studio-leaves-ea-to-work-for-second-life/">on Sims forums</a>, many of them don't seem to have thought very highly of Mr. Humble. Again that could bode either ill or good--the things that they seemed to have issues with were an alleged interest on the part of Mr. Humble to introduce "rpg" elements into <span style="font-style: italic;">The Sims</span>, and downplay some of the more supernatural aspects of that game brand.<br /><br />To be honest, I have no idea what the frenchfriedfuck those people are talking about, but hey, maybe it's important. Myself, I could see some real benefit coming the addition of "rpg elements" into "The Sims," even though back when I played it, mostly I just liked to build shit.<br /><br />The key thing here is that as far as I can tell, Mr. Humble isn't a bean counter like M was supposed to be. That could be a bad thing if he's into the whole hippy-dippy, do what feels good, oh "we don't need things like deadlines" philosophy that made Phil Rosedale such a a mixed blessing. The last thing we need is another CEO who doesn't establish clear goals and standards for his staff and insist that they be responsible and productive.<br /><br />On the other hand, as a person who apparently comes from the creative side rather than the bean counter clan, maybe...just<span style="font-style: italic;"> maybe</span>, there is a chance that Mr. Humble could be the sort of CEO who will listen to and appreciate the customer base that pays the bills. Maybe he won't be afraid of us and embarrassed by us like Philip and his minions seemed to be...maybe he will actually come down from the Linden ivory tower and walk forth among the residents and find out how we could all work together to keep SL healthy and profitable and fun...<br /><br />...and maybe Santa will finally bring me that fucking pony for Christmas.Diohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14266713613721430111noreply@blogger.com6tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2265659668411443893.post-62763793022116557232010-12-18T18:42:00.000-08:002010-12-19T11:09:45.248-08:00Christmas traditions: the morphing of my holiday<div style="text-align: center;">~~~<br /><div style="text-align: left;">It's been a lot of years since I had to travel at Christmastime, other than taking a train down into the City for various reasons, some related to fun and some to profit. And that experience had a curious charm, even with the necessity of riding on the crowded, dirty cars of Metro North's aging collection of rolling stock: sharing the proximity and the holiday spirit of the lumpy mass of my fellow passengers, all piled into the shabby seats; bundled up layers of wool and goose down jackets that made them look like a population of bourgeois Michelin men; and the snowy Connecticut countryside and towns rushing past the windows, holiday lights sprinkled over the passing suburbs like colored sprinkles on some kind of complex confection.<br /><br />Yeah, I don't get to do that anymore. But that was different from the grim reality of what holiday travel means for most folks: the dreadful Bataan death march that is going by plane anywhere in late December, knowing, just <span style="font-style: italic;">knowing</span> that sooner or later you will be shat upon by the transportation gods, sitting on the floor of some dreary air terminal, listening to harried gate agents making yet another announcement of yet another delay...<br /><br />And that was precisely the joyous festival of frustration I got to experience this Christmas season for the first time in...oh hell, I don't even<span style="font-style: italic;"> know</span> how long...<br /><br />Yep, this year, I'm on the road from yesterday though Christmas day. I writing this on a borrowed machine accessing a borrowed network, and now, things are ok. Yesterday? well that was another matter. The place in which the transportation gods decided to shit in my chapeau was in my second airport of the day, where I had to change planes for the last leg of my trip.<br /><br />Things were delayed, people were piling up in the waiting areas, my flight got shifted to a different gate, which, OH JOY OF JOYS, REQUIRED THAT I GO THROUGH SECURITY AGAIN IN ORDER TO GET THERE...<br /><br />...and as I went through the process of once again partially undressing and disassembling my kit, and lining up the trays with all my personal crap in them to be swallowed into the maw of the magic "personal crap inspection" machine, I observed ahead of me a couple with a toddler who was struggling and looking even more unhappy than all the rest of us combined...and the TSA gal running the new "hold up your hands and show me your goodies" machine looked at them and said,<br /><br />"Miss, he's too young to have to go through this"<br /><br />Without any major fuss or unnecessary theatrics, she pulled the barrier tape to close off access to the backscatter rig, politely opened a side gate, and took the mother and the child through the walk-through metal detector. Then she called over the woman's husband to follow through the same machine so he could keep up with his family and help them collect their gear from the baggage x-ray.<br /><br />He looked pretty surprised.<br /><br />Anyhow. after I got through security and reassembled myself, I went to wait with about 400 new friends who were packed into a space about the equivalent of modest-sized horse barn, and I noticed something.<br /><br />Mind you, it had been a long time since I had traveled at the holidays,, but this trip I saw what seemed like a lot more young men and women in uniform than I was used to seeing in the past. In the first airport I had been in earlier that day, there had been dozens of army personnel in their washed-out looking desert pattern BDUs, lugging the old traditional duffel bag and wearing packs. And in the second airport de jour I saw marines in their blues and tans, and numerous sailors in their dress blue crackerjacks, peacoats and dixie cup hats.<br /><br />It made me think of pictures of train stations in WWII...and it made me happy that these young men and women could be traveling in the uniform of their profession, and unlike a time I remember back when our society was more outwardly and unabashedly anti-military, no one gave them a ration of shit or gave them hostile looks. Instead, they were just fellow travelers, and if they got a look or a comment from anyone, it was a look of admiration and a word of thanks.<br /><br />But then it struck me...oh, like into the third hour of my sitting there...that there were other uniformed people present who weren't getting the same kind reaction from the general public. I went back over towards the security area, and when the TSA crew supervisor came out to look at the nearby arrival/departure screens to see how the evening's total goat screw was progressing, I went up to her and said, "excuse me, Miss?"<br /><br />I know what was going through her mind. Here was some crazy old bat in a G-1 jacket and mangy old FDNY ball cap, coming up dragging a dirty old duffel bag...and I think the gal showed great restraint in not instinctively reaching for her pepper spray. But seriously, I know she was expecting some new round of lambasting and idiocy. Nonetheless, she looked me up and down and politely replied, "yes ma'am, can I help you?"<br /><br />...and I said, "Miss, I just wanted to say thank you. Your people are acting in a very professional and efficient manner, and being very thoughtful of the folks coming through...and well...I imagine you probably get yelled at a lot more than you get thanked...so I wanted to say, good job, and it is appreciated."<br /><br />She looked startled for a moment and then smiled.<br /><br />"Thank you ma'm, I will be sure to tell the rest of my crew that. That is nice to hear."<br /><br />I did eventually get where I was going, and you know what? I got there in part because the TSA folks are trying their best to do a thankless job.<br /><br />You might feel like you want to piss and moan about the quality of TSA personnel, you may want to say that the system is not efficient and doesn't deal with the real problems and blah blah blah, and "invasion of privacy" and all that...and as far as I am concerned, you can just shut the fuck up.<br /><br />Remember, I have personal knowledge of what happened when there wasn't the level of security we have now. I'll take inconvenience and frustration any day, over the alternative. Yes, the people and the system are not perfect, but they sure as hell improve the odds for us. You want a perfect security system that doesn't take up a lot of your time, and doesn't cost a shitload of money? I have a news flash for you, assholes: it ain't happening.<br /><br />You want a guarantee? Wait for the next life, motherfucker, cuz it sure ain't coming in this one.<br /><br />So I have decided, now I have a new holiday tradition.<br /><br />In all honesty, at this point in my life's journey, I don't have a lot of Christmas traditions like some people do: I hate shopping; I haven't put up a tree in a number of years; I left the outdoor lights behind when husband number three's house got foreclosed on; my faith has evolved to the point where mass collective worship with a bunch of so-called Christians just ain't compatible with my personal way of trying to connect to the divine...and I am a fucking diabetic so baking crap made of over-refined flour and sugar is a source of unnecessary temptation...so what I have to work with is limited.<br /><br />Well, here's the new tradition: I will make sure that when things are at their shittiest, I will say something kind and positive to someone who is not having a good day, someone whose hard work is not appreciated, or who is getting nothing but one ration of shit after another from six different directions.<br /><br />And I don't mean the obvious candidates--active military personnel, WWII veterans, firefighters...yeah, of course you should say "thank you" to folks like that, be decent to them. I mean that you should be decent to someone who is really getting excoriated on a regular basis: snow plow drivers, customer service people at Linden lab, taxi drivers, subway conductors, fast food workers...but especially TSA personnel.<br /><br />In thinking on it, you should be like that all the time. There's no meed to be a mewling, pizzle-sucking douchebag with people who are just trying to do their job. But we should particularly try to do it this time of year when the stress and nonsense is particularly intense. If you want to be crass about it, think what life would be like without these people. If you have to whine and be an asshole to somebody, hey, that's what we have relatives for, right?<br /><div style="text-align: center;">~~~<br /></div><br /></div></div>Diohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14266713613721430111noreply@blogger.com7tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2265659668411443893.post-33992832174417744262010-12-16T09:47:00.000-08:002010-12-16T17:47:17.469-08:00RP lives on in SL<div style="text-align: center;">~~~<br /></div>Hey y'all,<br /><br />Yeah, I know I've been an irresponsible old doxie and haven't written or posted much lately except for the silly little bit about the "Chanuka Cham" at Wally World. And I'm pretty sure that don't really count.<br /><br />To some extent the lack of productivity on this ridiculous blog has been the result of work and other demands of rl eating my brain, like a Zombie Andrew Zimmern (who, by the way, I have enjoyed the times I have seen his show--not only will he freakin' eat goddam near anything, he does it with considerable gusto and cheerful elan, and what seems to be a genuine respect for the cultures that produce the various bug-and-slug-based cuisines he seems to so thoroughly relish). I just haven't had much mental energy for writing lately.<br /><br />The other thing is that--believe it or not--I have been really busy in Second Life, because there are exciting things going on in the world of historical rp. Let me give you a little update.<br /><br />First of all, as you will know from a previous post I recently made, the core team in Deadwood has embarked on a mission to revitalize the sim. The good news is that we are making progress. There are new people showing up, there are nights when there are a substantial number of folks in the sim at once, and things like gunplay, death and dismemberment are flourishing like they did in the old days of the sim. Just the other night I had to patch up Rod Eun's leg, and pull a bullet from C.T. Kungler's shoulder. There are others kinds of fun stuff going on as well: among the folks who have become regulars there is a player whose character is a mute orphan girl whom we have dubbed "Silence" (as we don't know her real name). In order to help Silence communicate better, Dio is teaching indian sign language to the child. I'm doing this by drawing on a wonderful web site that offers a "vocabulary" of native American sign language elements that were commonly used in the latter half of the 19th century. Although "in character" Dio of course knows sign language from the times she has spent among various indian peoples, for her typist this is one of those wonderful self-directed learning opportunities. I was delighted to discover that the standard northern/central plains sign for "friend" is constructed from elements that literally mean "like two brothers who have grown up together."<br /><br />Is that fuckin' poetic, or what?<br /><br />Among other projects we have going on, Addison Leigh is building like a maniac, adding some wonderful new structures to the Deadwood streetscape, and sim Owner Caed Aldwych has constructed a new and simplified OOC orientation/Vendor area that will save prims and be easier for new folks to navigate once it goes live. And my friend Serenek, a relatively new member of the Deadwood community, has worked with Addi to create a dandy boarding house, where respectable gals can find decent accommodations and a nice little island of civilization in primitive hogwallow that is our town.<br /><br />So we are seeing some progress there. The team feels like we probably have a pretty good shot at keeping the sim going for some time, and more importantly that people feel like they are getting something out of the experience provided by the sim. It's not just another dead and empty interesting build.<br /><br />Speaking of interesting builds, in other news, 1920s Berlin is continuing to make progress. The build recently relocated to a full sim, with more variety (including a super Brandenberg Gate) and more activity. There are more stores, more dwellings, more public spaces, and more businesses in general--there is even an active taxi cab service that will pick you up at the trains station and deliver you to wherever you want to go in the city.<br /><br />IC, I am still bartending regularly at the Keller, a more-or-less run-down dance hall and bar in a moderately shabby neighborhood...the job augments my income from my day job as an organizer and office worker for the anarcho-syndicalist labor union, the Freie Arbeiters Union-Deutschland (which frankly doesn't pay that well).<br /><br />Once again, Jo Yardley has done a splendid job of recreating the look and feel of Weimar era Berlin, but on an even grander scale and with more complexity and depth than before. The community is growing, and there is more interest in doing roleplaying in the sim: I have been asked to lead a couple of "intro to RP " discussion and they were well attended.<br /><br />Finally, I wanted to update you on what is going on in Alsium, the roman sim that that I have been involved with since it opened earlier this year. It has undergone a change in ownership, and is being rebuilt. It was beautiful before, but was clearly more"inspired by" roman culture and architecture, rather than standing as a "recreation" of a roman community from the time of Marcus Aurelius. Now, a new builder, Lexusz Mornington, has been engaged, and the future of the sim looks extremely promising. The new owners are working with that new builder and the community at large to collectively plan and develop a new kind of Roman sim that SL has not seen before--one that represents iconic elements of historical roman life and culture, featuring historically plausible composite buildings, organized into a coherent--and still visually appealing--roman coastal resort city.<br /><br />I am really getting excited about this project, especially as I have had the chance to see mock-ups of some of the proposed architectural elements, which the designer has based on actual ancient buildings, but adapted to be functional within the context of SL. In my humble opinion, the new build is gonna knock your socks off.<br /><br />So, you may ask, what's the point here, besides the fact that Dio has kept her saggy ol' ass busy running from one time period to another in her off hours?<br /><br />The point is, to my delight (and a certain degree of surprise) historical roleplaying and creative sim building continues in SL, and, in fact, is attracting some new adherents (bit by bit). After a long dry spell this fall when activity seemed to be dropping off, I am seeing it come back.<br /><br />That is, of course, a purely subjective conclusion and based on my limited experience in the fairly restricted sphere of places I wander around in. And I don't have a good explanation for it--are people finding they have more time on their hands to fill now that it gets dark earlier (and let's face it, what television has to offer blows beyond belief)? Is the economy actually getting a little better and people have the confidence and spare cash to buy some clothing and build or buy some new structures in a virtual world?<br /><br />Yes there are a lot of sims that remain empty and lifeless--some of them wonderful builds, and others that deserve to go the way of the dodo--but in places where people are refusing to give up and keep trying to make the sims evolve and activity happen, people are showing up and having fun.<br /><br />Maybe the sky still isn't ready to fall, just yet.<br /><div style="text-align: center;">~~~<br /></div>Diohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14266713613721430111noreply@blogger.com5tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2265659668411443893.post-8692079434785726342010-12-06T16:45:00.000-08:002010-12-06T16:48:36.441-08:00I fear for the future of the republic...<a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjO-UajK9WovC-Ha_-_h2G_m0l1qXVXCoDPfb84uYPJrbHfriKQgjuJVoI_re5eUJ-kMMSLnDG0CUIQqlNF3cipIdmu5e7HFL0yGMOpan29LnYmTY7ehhe8dZsL-OaRS5Xq_gA-8K-78t_9/s1600/jewish+ham.png"><img style="display: block; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; width: 400px; height: 294px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjO-UajK9WovC-Ha_-_h2G_m0l1qXVXCoDPfb84uYPJrbHfriKQgjuJVoI_re5eUJ-kMMSLnDG0CUIQqlNF3cipIdmu5e7HFL0yGMOpan29LnYmTY7ehhe8dZsL-OaRS5Xq_gA-8K-78t_9/s400/jewish+ham.png" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5547735385030625586" border="0" /></a> <span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 51, 0);">The above was seen in the food section of certain big box retailer...</span>Diohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14266713613721430111noreply@blogger.com7tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2265659668411443893.post-40625751463048569242010-11-10T11:18:00.000-08:002010-11-10T18:05:12.377-08:00Saving a sim<div style="text-align: center;">~~~<br /></div><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiW1X8xOSo_jjZU5XxKZJ4ABwCehl0I-re3ViqlceBSSHe41HlRJPPhGX9SxaCFpGEt0Ajt90MbnEORM_TieS1Zr2yLaE30k7CUMFv_1wkTbG5g9-wgrEk6FCcuwL3OKCAGd5GGpS482bQA/s1600/likkerSnapshot_002.png"><img style="display: block; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; width: 435px; height: 241px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiW1X8xOSo_jjZU5XxKZJ4ABwCehl0I-re3ViqlceBSSHe41HlRJPPhGX9SxaCFpGEt0Ajt90MbnEORM_TieS1Zr2yLaE30k7CUMFv_1wkTbG5g9-wgrEk6FCcuwL3OKCAGd5GGpS482bQA/s400/likkerSnapshot_002.png" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5538016065092219090" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0); font-style: italic;">Part of my effort to help save a sim: Kuhr's Wholesale Liquor and Fine Tobacco</span><br /><br /><br /><div style="text-align: left;">I don't know, maybe it's the phase of the moon or something like that, but lately I've found myself wandering from one sim to another that needs some help.<br /></div><br />Things do tend to go in cycles, and everything has a life span, but that doesn't mean we have to just roll over and just say, "oh well, natural selection is inevitable--the herd must be thinned!" I admire the people who try to do what they can to revitalize a project that they care about.<br /><br />One place where this process is underway is in Deadwood. Traffic dropped off and people found themselves struggling to maintain the sense of shared narrative that makes a place like Deadwood so special. I will confess that I was part of the problem: between the demands of real life and getting caught up in splitting my time between Deadwood and other sims such as Alsium and 1920s Berlin, I wasn't contributing much to life in the 1870s. We can only stretch ourselves so far, and we have to make choices.<br /><br />So when the folks in Deadwood decided to not give up and to look at how they could work collectively to breathe some life back into the project, I became determined to do what I could. I have made my choice, and I will just have to spend less time with my Roman and Weimar era friends.<br /><br />At present a significant effort is being made: sim owner Caed Aldwych has given a carefully selected group of die-hards and oldtimers permission to add new structures to the build and to provide "set dressing" to various environments within the rp area. The roleplay timeframe is moving into 1877, when the town had more complexity and socio-economic depth, and that should help make things more interesting. Rents have been reduced (at least temporarily) to encourage more activity. This enabled me to make my first contribution to the revitalization process: a wholesale liquor and tobacco store on Main Street.<br /><br />My next production will be a blacksmith and farrier's shop located back off one of the secondary alleys, and I am looking forward to playing around with that (my friend Clay and I built a dandy smith's forge back during our time in Deadwood 1.0, and I intend to dig that out). Other people are working on projects such as the Gem and Bella Union saloons, a jail, a bank, and other diverse businesses providing goods and services that fit within the context of 1877-78.<br /><br />To bump up interest--and traffic-some of us have been doing what folks in many rp sims do these days: setting certain times where people will concentrate on coming into the sim, so there will be more likelihood of having someone to interact with. Likewise, people like Clay (now known as C.T. Kungler) and the Leitners are hosting regularly reoccurring events each week, such as boxing matches and talent shows, which give people a reminder that the sim exists, and provide an opportunity to come together and see what can happen.<br /><br />So far we have seen improvement in traffic, the sim looks good, and we've been having some fun. A few of us have been trying to encourage folks we know from other sims (and time periods) to stop by and try it out.<br /><br />Is it going to work?<br /><br />I've got no goddam idea.<br /><br />But the important things is that we are having a good time trying. It kinda brings us back to an idea that gets trotted out periodically: that ultimately the quality of the experience we have in SL is shaped by our own actions and choices. If you sort of slouch around, expecting other people to entertain you or to keep things fixed and running smoothly, you're probably going to be disappointed.<br /><br />So if any of y'all have other thoughts of how a community might try to keep their sim lively and interesting, I would appreciate hearing your thoughts.<br /><div style="text-align: center;">~~~<br /></div>Diohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14266713613721430111noreply@blogger.com9tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2265659668411443893.post-8403963484487826512010-10-29T22:52:00.000-07:002010-10-30T00:45:24.859-07:00Jack of the Lantern -- a story for the season<div style="text-align: center;">~~~<br /><br /><span style="font-style: italic;">A retelling of a traditional Irish story....</span><br /></div><br />Long ago in the old country<br /><br />in days when the Gael were just startin' to follow in the path of Good Patrick<br /><br />there lived the meanest man in Christendom...<br /><br />well...truth be told, the meanest man of any land<br /><br />and his name was Jack<br /><br />he was so mean his neighbors all feared him<br /><br />he kicked wee dogs, he yelled at the young'uns<br /><br />he played dreadful jokes on everyone<br /><br />once he even snuck up on the divil himself and tied a knot in his tail<br /><br />he was so wicked it seemed he would live forever<br /><br />... as pricks tend to do<br /><br />but sure enough along came the day when even he died<br /><br />so there he was<br /><br />"well this is bloody lovely, here I am dead and all"<br /><br />"I guess I'll be takin' me self off to hell then...I know they won't want me upstairs"<br /><br />so he trudges off to the gates of Hades<br /><br />But the divil bars the door an waves a pitchfork at him<br /><br />says he<br /><br />"where do ye think yer goin?"<br /><br />Jack replies<br /><br />"in there, Scratch, tis where I belong ain't it?"<br /><br />but the divil shakes his head no<br /><br />"you're too mean for even in here!...and don't ye go thinkin I don't know who put that kink in me tail!"<br /><br />says Jack in reply,<br /><br />"well, where shall I go?"<br /><br />The divil sneered and waved his hand,<br /><br />"pah, ye can go to heaven for all I care!"<br /><br />so Jack sets off fer the pearly gates and is still a half mile off, when up comes a runnin' ol Peter himself, his sandals flappin', his long beard trialin behind him in the wind and his holy bathrobe floppin'<br /><br /><br />says the blessed Saint,<br /><br />"where do ye think yer a goin', Bucko?"<br /><br />Jack looked perplexed,<br /><br />"The divil wouldna let me in downstairs so I came here and..."<br /><br />But Good Peter holds up his hand and scowls<br /><br />"OH NO yer NOT, laddie! If they wouldna let ye in down below, yer certainly not a-passin' though these gates!""<br /><br />and Jack, he looked about...he couldna go to Hell ...an he couldna go to heaven<br /><br />so he set down to ...<br /><br /><br />...well... he took to weepin'<br /><br />...for the first time, in his sorry existence, live or dead, he wept<br /><br />an' the ol Saint's heart softened, and says he,<br /><br />"Arright, laddie me buck...chin up... I tell ye what...I'll send ye back to earth as a spirit"<br /><br />"and ye can wander an think upon yer wicked deeds and maybe in a few thousand years, I'll look at the tick sheet and see if we can let you in, eh?"<br /><br />So off Jack goes... and he wanders the earth, and he was so lonely as the centuries went by...<br /><br />thus, he took a turnip and hollowed it out...and carved a wee face on it<br /><br /><br />and put a candle inside, to make a little lantern, to carry and to keep him company<br /><br />and people would see his light comin' o'er the hills at night, especially on the nights when the spirits come forth, like all hallows eve...<br /><br />and the livin' folk still feared him. so beastly was his reputation<br /><br />and they would say<br /><br />"look out! for here comes Jack of the lantern"<br /><br />So they took to making their own hollowed out turnip lanterns, with wee grimacing faces on them to scare Jack away from their doors<br /><br />And when the folk came to amerikay...<br /><br />they found the Indian squash..the big round poompkins<br /><br /><br />those were far easier to hollow out and cut a face into it<br /><br />and they began the makin' o' their lanterns for the nights when the spirits all walk about in the land<br /><br />an' they call em jack o' lanterns<br /><br />for among the spirits that wander abroad on those nights like all hallows eve..they know that Jack is among the shades that walk<br /><br />and they fear his evil tricks still<br /><div style="text-align: center;">~~~<br /></div>Diohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14266713613721430111noreply@blogger.com0